: Water/Alchohol injection kits. any1 have one?
09-20-2004, 03:59 PM
Just seeing if anybody has a water alchohol injection kit on their svtf and how much it helps. I know it allows the car to run cooler and allow you to advance the timing, but I wanted to see if anyone has actually put one on any here actual people tell me what it does first hand.
09-20-2004, 04:03 PM
i saw that thread title and i thought it was a thread about illegal drug use.
from what i know, a water injection kit only helps if you have a turbo motor with an intercooler, as it squirts into the IC. ive never heard of one for NA cars. what does it do, squirt into the radiator?
09-20-2004, 06:21 PM
I heard that alcohol injection doesn't work very well with zetecs
09-20-2004, 07:14 PM
im guessing by alcohol injection they are referring to using it as a fuel...??? If so, has this even been done before?
09-20-2004, 08:44 PM
snowperformance.net Is where I got my kit. You use 50%methonal and 50%water mix. I bought the unit for use with my jrsc. I dont have dyno numbers yet as my car is still at Toms getting the finishing touches put on the car. We should have numbers some time this week. Basically it recomended for f/i apps. It will work on n/a vehicles, but I cant see it being worth much on a n/a 4cyl. For me snow descriebes it best, its cheap insurance for your motor protecting against deto, and when you boost 14+psi like with no cooling, you need something like this. Ill have more info some time this week on numbers with the kit.
09-21-2004, 01:17 PM
I was asking because a buddy of mine just bought a kit for his WRX. He said it would be somewhat useful on n/a cars just not as much as f/i. I know it also works like an octane booster so instead of 91 (pretty much the best we have on the west coast) to somthing like 108 or so. I would love to see the dyno numbers after you get it finished. Thanks
09-21-2004, 01:40 PM
This injection kit doesn't take the place of the fuel it only helps make it better. What it does is shoots a fine mist of water and alchohol mix into the intake usually around the TB if im not mistaken.
09-21-2004, 02:48 PM
Correct. As I understand it, it is just a fine spray of water/alcohol just before the intake manifold to cool the intake charge (resulting in denser air being taken into combustion chamber). I would say this is near worthless on a N/A motor. Compressing air (as in a turbo/super charger) increases temperature, thus reducing power- the mixture cools it back down. Relatively speaking, the air entering a N/A motor is already cool. The mixture would cool a F/I intake charge down to what a N/A motor generally feeds off of. Intake charge temps can only get so cool.
09-21-2004, 06:11 PM
Most use a mixture of water/methanol. A few crazies have use a mixtrue of water/nitromethane with "exciting results" I wont ever do that, but for the most part what every one has been saying is true. You can look at it as injecting a high octane fuel into your system making the chances of deto go way down, very good for me since I am running the jrsc that has no cooling on the charge.
09-21-2004, 06:50 PM
wouldnt spraying water into the throttle body cause problems?
09-22-2004, 12:01 AM
Well, its not straight water, its a solution of water/methonal. But, what makes you say it would cause problems with the tb?
SLIP STREAM SVT
09-22-2004, 05:26 PM
let me correct him, - would it cause problems with the engine?
09-22-2004, 06:09 PM
thats what i meant.
09-22-2004, 06:31 PM
No, if the proper size pump is used for injection, then the water/methanol will atomize upon injection. I cant recall the rating of the pump that must be used in order to reach correct point. But, hopefully you get the idea.
09-22-2004, 08:15 PM
so which is it....its done to cool the incoming air or to increase the octane rating of the fuel?
09-22-2004, 10:37 PM
"Up to approximately 20 psi boost, water/methanol injection will provide all the density increase/detonation control needed in most applications"
Straight form snows site. So, you can look at it as doing both. But, keep in mind you are not increasing the octane rating of your fuel in your tank. I simply mean that this mixture is LIKE a high octane fuel as in the job it does to stop deto. BTW...here are my jrsc @14 psi with NO nitrous and NO methane injection yet.
233hp and 178trq. Making 200hp by 6K. Keep in mind this is with out any type of injection, just straight jrsc m62@14psi. Ill have methane injection numbers in the next few days, along with nitrous numbers.
09-23-2004, 06:16 AM
First lets define detonation: As the air/fuel chage compresses in the cylinders, heat is created. In some cases the heat is so great it combustes the fuel before the spark plug creates the spark to do it. The reason this is bad is because the detonation combustion is uncontrolled, you dont know when it will occur.
That is partly the theory of a diesel, many of them have CR's of 17:1 or greater, thats how they combuste the fuel without a spark from a spark plug.
High octane fuel has a higher threshold to resist combustion, same as lower compression, same as cooling the intake charge with water.
So there are several ways to prevent detonation. Lower compression means lower hp, at least in small cube engines. You can run low octane fuel in a FI or high compression engine, it will just detonate like crazy every time you put a load on it, or go WOT.
Water injection is a great way to reduce detonation. If you were running a high compression engine, say 12.5:1, or stuffing alot of air into the engine with FI, then water injection is a method to consider if detonation is a problem.
09-23-2004, 12:19 PM
Water injection isn't only used if there is a detonation problem. It can be used to gain more HP if you have FI. It allows you tp put more boost through whatever kind of FI system you have. But as with many mods the amount of HP and preformance you will get out of it will only be as good as the tuning thats done. I have also been told it can allow you to advance your timming up to three deg. But as Twofocused was saying it is a great way to control cumbustion.
09-23-2004, 08:18 PM
I was told that water injection is used to help prevent detonation, and is mostly found on forced induction engines. I know you can use it on naturally aspriated motors (probably won't see any gains), but I've heard it "steam cleans" the insides of the engine which can bring back lost horsepower in dirty engines.
09-23-2004, 08:24 PM
ok, thanks for the info guys.
before this thread the only water injection i knew about had to do with spraying water on an intercooler. something my friend has in his modded wrx.
whats the price for this kit.
10-13-2004, 06:50 PM
Hey JRSCSVT, do you need a built engine to run a jrsc and nitrous? Or can you do it on the stock engine? (looking for numbers around 220hp/200tq)