2012 SE Sedan at my dealership today! [Archive]

mmmoose

03-22-2011, 10:41 PM

Wow, seriously? What's with all the hate? This thing is leagues better than the highest trim option of the previous generation. It's funny how a set of naked steel wheels and an unpainted sharkfin antenna can distort the perceived value of a car. Price issues aside it's still a damn fine car in my book. If money wasn't an issue I'm sure the tone of this thread would be completely different.

The presence of painted mirror caps and fog lights confirm that it's a base SE. I doubt it's a fleet car, unless there's some good reasoning behind not getting the base S. I'm also thinking the steel wheel covers are installed at the dealership before final sale to prevent damage during transport. There were other similarly configured SE's in an earlier thread of delivery pictures too, where the steel wheels were exposed.

misfire

03-23-2011, 07:47 AM

its just a huge styling change. i know the Focus is a global car and times have changed. im just used to my Focus looking American...not like everything else out there. the Focus was very different when it came out. its not so much any more.

5characters

03-23-2011, 07:56 AM

I like my '10 ses more, only because I can drive it when I want. but I would LOVE any of the new ones. Sorry Sharon ( my car's name. because the voice sounds like a Sharon)

deezx5

03-23-2011, 09:02 AM

mmmoose

03-23-2011, 09:04 AM

This car is hard to get excited about, assuming its an auto base SE its 19K and doesn't even include cruise control or decent wheels. If it was a fully loaded Titanium hatch I think the reactions would be a bit different.

I agree the price is outrageous. I wouldn't buy one at this very moment either. There are other cars in the market which I think are better equipped for that price point. But I think it obviously has a lot of potential if the Titanium trim is drawing all the attention, as you already point out. I think if we give it some time they'll be better equipped and more reasonably priced. If Ford is smart at least...

its just a huge styling change. i know the Focus is a global car and times have changed. im just used to my Focus looking American...not like everything else out there. the Focus was very different when it came out. its not so much any more.

I assume that you're referring to the 2008-2011 model when you're saying that you're used to it looking American. The first generation Focus with its unique Kinetic design scheme originated in Europe (Germany specifically) back in '98. A slightly revised version of that same car came to the US for the 2000 model year.

That's the first time Americans have ever even heard or seen the Focus at all. I fell in love with its bold design with sweeping curves/lines the moment I saw it. Many people I knew absolutely hated it. Either way it was probably the boldest design car at the time. The 2011 Fiesta and 2012 Focus is a true progression of that same design language. I'm not quite sure I understand how some people think it lost its uniqueness.

The 2008-2011 Focus was a completely different beast on its own. And that's fine if some people like it more than the original or newest Focus. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I personally hesitate to call it a true Focus, knowing how greatly it differs from its origins and its global platform. The only thing the two ever had in common was the platform they rode on, and even the US version was lagging behind there.

I like my '10 ses more, only because I can drive it when I want. but I would LOVE any of the new ones. Sorry Sharon ( my car's name. because the voice sounds like a Sharon)

I'm confused... why can't you drive a 2012 Focus when you want? Does the car come with some form of AI personality that requires verbal coercion to unlock the doors and start up... and that on some days it just might not feel like it?

[scratch]

misfire

03-23-2011, 10:22 AM

yes. ive owned foci since 05. i know the history

mmmoose

03-23-2011, 11:08 AM

Skippy905

03-23-2011, 11:20 AM

I agree the price is outrageous. I wouldn't buy one at this very moment either. There are other cars in the market which I think are better equipped for that price point.

[scratch]

Hi all, just got registered, so first time post.

While the Focus is a little more than other cars in it's class, you have to remember a few things. There is many more options/technology/fun put into the car at 19k over any other car in that class.
Second, it is much better designed and built than any other cars in it's class. The fit and materials are supposed to be superior, and from what I have read, they did deliver. If you are waiting for the price to go down, it might, but I am guessing that so will the quality of interior as well (look how many times car companies change the layout of cars halfway through the year, taking away some amenities but keeping the price the same).
Finally, from reviews I have read, it is outstandingly quiet, luxury type quiet! Show me that on the 18k "Tin Box" Hyundai Elantra (not picking on them, but same class, same trim level, and almost same price for half the car)

misfire

03-23-2011, 11:25 AM

On a side note I think it's cool that you got a '08 Mazda3. They're good looking and fun cars. I'm hoping Mazda will de-uglify the front of the current ones with the next redesign. On the plus side they'll be coming out with their patented Sky-G engine next year. If they can keep prices the same, it'll be a cheaper alternative to the 2012 Focus with equal or better fuel economy. Good deal!
Yeah. im not crazy about the new ones. id much rather get an 08 speed3 hatch. the 3 is my fiancee's car.

Hi all, just got registered, so first time post.

While the Focus is a little more than other cars in it's class, you have to remember a few things. There is many more options/technology/fun put into the car at 19k over any other car in that class.
Second, it is much better designed and built than any other cars in it's class. The fit and materials are supposed to be superior, and from what I have read, they did deliver. If you are waiting for the price to go down, it might, but I am guessing that so will the quality of interior as well (look how many times car companies change the layout of cars halfway through the year, taking away some amenities but keeping the price the same).
Finally, from reviews I have read, it is outstandingly quiet, luxury type quiet! Show me that on the 18k "Tin Box" Hyundai Elantra (not picking on them, but same class, same trim level, and almost same price for half the car)

yeah, but comparing the 19k to the 21k that my 2010 fully loaded SES is, is much different. i know its a new body style and so on. usually auto makers bump them up $500 to $1000 at most. this is a huge price jump and for 19k it doesnt even have SYNC or a sun roof or a spoiler or wheels.

MacAttack

03-23-2011, 11:31 AM

This makes me want to leave work early and drive over to your dealership lol.
Seeing these at dealerships is going to make it very hard to wait for the ST.

Gobird

03-23-2011, 11:32 AM

Skippy905, You are 100% correct. A couple other things, and I'm sure don't mean anything to some on this is: AN AMERICAN CAR COMPANY, BUILT IN AMERICA AND PROVIDES AMERICAN JOBS.!!

As a retired Steel Worker this means a lot to me.

bryantest

03-23-2011, 12:36 PM

Call me a devil's advocate.

But I do think the Focus' high price point might actually help the 2011 Elantra garner more sales than ever.

mmmoose

Keep prices the same? I don't know how will that happen considering the engine tech behind the Skyactiv engine is way different vs the Ecoboost/Ecotec and Theta.

I would think prices of cars equipped with DI engines will "normalize" once more and more automakers started equipping their cars with DI engines too.

It's no different from waiting a few years before the prices of " mainstream electronic products equipped with premium tech" become more affordable.

Besides, you also have to consider the effect of that devastating earthquake-tsunami on the prices of newly manufactured Jap. cars these days.

mmmoose

03-23-2011, 12:42 PM

While the Focus is a little more than other cars in it's class, you have to remember a few things. There is many more options/technology/fun put into the car at 19k over any other car in that class.

Second, it is much better designed and built than any other cars in it's class. The fit and materials are supposed to be superior, and from what I have read, they did deliver.

I'd gladly opt out of a few certain luxury/convenience features if I could I get better standard options that concentrate on performance/handling. But I can't because that's simply not an option for the sub-$20k price point. You can't buy the base S with the SE Sport Package. Look around and you'll find many sub-$20k competitors out there that come with standard rear disc brakes, alloy wheels, and more horsepower/torque under the hood.

I appreciate that they went more upscale on the interior, but at the same time I don't use cars as overnight hotel rooms either. So I guess I'm less impressed by that sort of stuff. It's clear that Ford wants to change the Focus brand into something more upscale and more mature. It is no longer the budget car it used to be. A lot of us own (or have owned) the older Foci. We loved it because it gave the perfect balance of cheap and fun. Now it's expensive and fun. That's why it's causing quite a stir on these forums.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... the Fiesta is the true successor to the old Focus. The only thing the new and old Focus share is the name. That's it.

And this isn't the first time Ford has shuffled brand demographics around either. The Taurus and Explorer have gone through the same changes. The Fusion and Edge both replace the older (cheaper) Taurus and Explorer respectively. The new Taurus and Explorer have become slightly more expensive in the same way the Focus has. I think killing off the Mercury brand might've had something to do with this expansion, and that's fine! But it's going to take a bit of adjustment for people to accept these changes.

Gobird

03-23-2011, 12:55 PM

mmmoose, Your correct on Ford moving this car up scale. Another one they did this with was the T-Bird. I have owned 6 of these since 1984 and my 5th one, in 95, was around $26/27,000. My 02 sold for $40,000 +. It was a completely different car and moved up the ladder but I still bought one.

It's all in what you are willing to pay the price for what you want.

GhiaFan

03-23-2011, 01:13 PM

Finally Ford North America is offering the same high engineered Ford cars it has been offering in other parts of the world and striving to be a leader in each segment.

The Focus was sold at a B segment vehicle price because it did not have the C segment competitive elements hence a car chosen because of low price. The Fiesta is the proper B segment vehicle now in Ford N.A. line up with old Focus pricing.

Now North Americans have a proper C segment car from Ford with C segment pricing and engineering above most of its competitors in North America, hence the jump in MSRP. Plus the new Focus has features that main stream cars in any segment in North America do not offer. One would need to look at very premium brands to obtain the same kinds of features.

Good article written about this new Ford
Quote from article "For a fresh clue about whether Ford has left its bad old days in the dust, take a test drive in the 2012* Ford Focus and be prepared for a pleasant surprise.

Ford (F, Fortune 500), which narrowly avoided bankruptcy two years ago, this week kicked off production of its new compact car in a converted truck factory in Wayne, Michigan. The new model, which competes directly against models like the Honda Civic and Chevrolet Cruze, is likely the best small car Ford ever has sold in the U.S.

"Lots of shoppers are moving to smaller vehicles because of gasoline prices and for reasons of conservation," said Said Deep, a Ford spokesman. "They expect, and should get, the same kinds of features they had in the bigger vehicles they're trading in."

Oddly, Ford has manufactured high-quality, well-regarded small cars for European customers for some time, choosing to build cheaper, flimsier versions for the U.S. That strategy not only handed share of the U.S. market to Toyota and others, it required Ford to have separate marketing, engineering and manufacturing organizations for each continent.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/22/autos/ford_focus_2011.fortune/?section=magazines_fortune

I agree 100% that Ford made the right decision to put the same good stuff it has been offering the rest of the world in its vehicles for North America, and do it better then the competition. Yes it costs more then the past offerings but the consumer does get an all around better produced vehicle.

Skippy905

03-23-2011, 01:35 PM

Finally Ford North America is offering the same high engineered Ford cars it has been offering in other parts of the world and striving to be a leader in each segment.

The Focus was sold at a B segment vehicle price because it did not have the C segment competitive elements hence a car chosen because of low price.

Now North Americans have a proper C segment car from Ford with C segment pricing and engineering above most of its competitors in North America, hence the jump in MSRP........

Oddly, Ford has manufactured high-quality, well-regarded small cars for European customers for some time, choosing to build cheaper, flimsier versions for the U.S.........

I couldn't agree more.

This is also the reason for the RS500 never making it here. People complain here that we can't get the same thing as Europe, but if we could get it, they would complain that it is too expensive.

Even the 2012 Focus will be slightly different than European models, so that our pricing doesn't go higher (such things as projector headlights, different engines, etc.)

I agree that the pricing of the Focus MIGHT allow for more Elantra (and such) sales, but those shoppers are ONLY price oriented anyways, and not ones to consider the full package, and Ford is not marketing the Focus to those people anymore.

I like the ones, as I felt the old ones were just too plain and cheaply made for me (I like the European ones though). With the new Focus, I am excited and fully plan to buy one. And yes, I am the market that will gladly pay the extra $2000 to have a quiet comfy ride versus the ride of many of the other class competitors. Albeit I should say that I was considering (and still kind of am) a Honda Civic, but the interior felt so boring, and I couldn't get the options I wanted unless I went to the very high end (then costing more than the Focus).

Overall, I am happy with what Ford has done, and this coming after I bought a new Ford in 1999, had it for two years, and swore to NEVER buy a Ford again.

bryantest

03-23-2011, 03:09 PM

but those shoppers are ONLY price oriented anyways

You're really sure of that in the 2011 Elantra's case? You're talking about a car w/c already has front and rear disc brakes in all trims..plus the only car in its segment to offer front and heated rear seats..and the only other car so far in its segment to offer a flash memory-based navigation system.

MacAttack

03-23-2011, 03:09 PM

They're bringing the Focus ST here, and I'm suspecting that price to be around 30k.

WiscoGTI

03-23-2011, 03:35 PM

I'm liking it. With a 1.5" + drop, and some better wheels, it would look sexy.

Skippy905

03-23-2011, 03:53 PM

You're really sure of that in the 2011 Elantra's case? You're talking about a car w/c already has front and rear disc brakes in all trims..plus the only car in its segment to offer front and heated rear seats..and the only other car so far in its segment to offer a flash memory-based navigation system.

And has been rated to have horrible handling, loud road noise, cheap plastic interior, low resale value.......not to mention a long list of complaints that Hyundai/Kia does not honor warranty (look at their fine print and see what you have to do to keep the warranty. You get hosed!)

I'm not trying to bash on the Elantra, as I considered it at one point too. It has lots of neat features, but isn't really a whole lot less expensive than the Focus (when you use comparable trim levels). Take it for a test drive and see, it really is not that great of a car.

You know how the saying goes "You get what you pay for"

19COBRA93

03-23-2011, 04:37 PM

And has been rated to have horrible handling, loud road noise, cheap plastic interior, low resale value.......not to mention a long list of complaints that Hyundai/Kia does not honor warranty (look at their fine print and see what you have to do to keep the warranty. You get hosed!)

I'm not trying to bash on the Elantra, as I considered it at one point too. It has lots of neat features, but isn't really a whole lot less expensive than the Focus (when you use comparable trim levels). Take it for a test drive and see, it really is not that great of a car.

You know how the saying goes "You get what you pay for"

I recently test drove the new Elantra (3 times, I almost bought one), and 3 different models of the Fiesta. I was in the market for a new 4 door, inexpensive, fuel friendly vehicle. I work at a Ford dealer, and all I drive are Fords (Focus, Bronco, Mustang, Capri) so I'm very Ford biased. However, I was VERY impressed with the Elantra. It's a much better car than the Fiesta in a lot of areas, especially handling, power, and road noise. It's also priced the same (similarly equipped Fiesta was $18,700). Now, I can't compare the Elantra to the 2012 Focus, as I haven't driven one, but the Elantra priced out at $18,600 with typical upgrades. Priced online, a comparable 2012 Focus was about $23k. That's a big difference. Also, Hyundai has been punching out some decent reliable cars lately. I wouldn't underestimate them.

I agree that the new Focus is going to be a better car than the Elantra, but it's also priced that way as well.

bryantest

03-23-2011, 04:42 PM

misfire

03-23-2011, 04:43 PM

UPDATE:

i just drove the 2012. it seems more peppier. interior feels cheap compared to my 2010. floor mats are paper thin. engine makes a loud ticking noise from the new direct injection. they have a foam insert on top to quiet it down some.

it is a fleet car for Western Pest Company.

MacAttack

03-23-2011, 07:55 PM

misfire

03-23-2011, 08:09 PM

more pics

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/williep84/2012focus1-1.jpg

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/williep84/2012focus2-1.jpg

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/williep84/2012focus3-1.jpg

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/williep84/focushid2.jpg
and my car in front of it. lol.

c_los7

03-23-2011, 09:13 PM

I love how everyone is a car expert in here!

Artdizzle

03-23-2011, 09:37 PM

Thanks a lot for the pics misfire, I FINALLY know what they look like! I'm pretty disappointed with that screen, all of that black "screen" for that tiny 3 line lighted up block? It makes it look really cheap, and its a big waste of space to me... but oh well, you get what you pay for I guess....

Was it at least really legible? I can't tell from the pics at all.

Anyways, I'm hoping I won't mind it so much when I get my order in and I take it for a drive. I'm not sure now about picking the sport package over the SYNC package, ugh (I only had enough money to pick ONE of those two), especially since the sport package apparently won't have the adjusted suspension anymore.

Do you think the upgrades of the sport package would make it seem less "cheap" inside and out?

xpeterbilt387x

03-23-2011, 09:53 PM

Looks okay. Not gonna lie, the pics make it look kind of used and thrown in the wholesale lot kind of deal. But I think when prepared and better pics are takin, people might change their minds. I like the new focus. But as already said, the price is a big jump. But think about this, it's a whole different car! I can't wait to see some of these at the dealership!

BlackFociSE

03-23-2011, 09:58 PM

http://lotpro.com/blogphotos/Ford/tn_AS08%20Ford%20Focus%20091.jpg > http://image.motortrend.com/f/auto_shows/paris/2010/1009_2012_ford_focus/30634207+pheader/2012-ford-focus-sedan-front.jpg im jus sayin...

LostContrails

03-23-2011, 10:07 PM

I personally still think the 2012 Focus is the best Focus ever offered in NA and will easily become a top seller in its class.

The first batch of Focuses are due to arrive in 3 weeks according to my dealer. Unfortunately none of them are SEL or Titanium models because generally speaking, everyone here in this province goes for the cheapest version of anything. 5 SE Hatchbacks and one S Sedan.

However the guy I've been emailing has said he'll keep in touch on the Focus delivery dates for me. Can't wait to see it for myself. I will no doubt be getting the SEL model though. Don't care if the rest of this province wants to cheap out. :P

russmistro

03-23-2011, 10:11 PM

went to my dealer today to take my car in bc its crapped out [mecry] and one guy said he saw a 2012 ST..dont know how true this is but if it is, (as joey from blossom would say) WHOA!

MacAttack

03-23-2011, 11:13 PM

Skippy905

03-24-2011, 09:02 AM

And has been rated to have horrible handling, loud road noise, cheap plastic interior, low resale value

I have no idea where did you got those criticisms of the 2011 Elantra..nobody said the car has Mazda3/Focus-like handling but this car's is definitely tossable (got to test drive my pal's 2011 Elantra Limited a few weeks ago)

Loud road noise are attributed to the low-resistance silica tires it's using..other than that....lots of people and auto magazine editors have been singing praises about this car.

Honestly, your criticisms are best applied to Hyundai and Kia's previous generation of their cars.

I'm not trying to start a fight about all this, but I would like to point out that I am not one to randomly throw out MY ideas about cars with no knowledge of what I am talking about. Look at the article below and note that their words are "The new engine makes the kind of high-pitched racket at high rpm that barges into your ear canals screaming, “Hey, I’m still an economy car!” And the Elantra’s ride is unnecessarily stiff and noisy"

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q4/2011_hyundai_elantra_limited-short_take_road_test

Also, my pricing might a little skewed as I am in Canada and our pricing is a bit different, but here, to get the Elantra with Navigation, you can only have it in top of the line, which will run you $24,699.00
To get the top of the line Focus (leaps and bounds better), you will pay $24,499 plus $700 more for the navigation system, bringing to a total of $25,199.00. So I can't say that the Elantra is really any cheaper.
Also, you could simply by the SEL and add the MFT and navigation and still come out to only $23,299.00 ($1400.00 cheaper).

I as well drove the Elantra, and even considered buying it, so I have experience with it as well. I am not saying that Elantra is a piece of crap. I think that they have done an exceptional job on it (as well as other cars in their lineup in the past couple of years), I am just saying that it really is not on par with the Focus. To get the quality and technology you are getting in the Focus, you can not expect to pay the same price as other cars of lesser grade.

My point is that I do know what I am saying, I don't just throw out random crap. I read up a lot on cars, and have much experience both working on cars and selling them.

warneej

03-24-2011, 09:39 AM

Just remember all of these pictures are of a more or less base model that is a fleet vehicle.

misfire

03-24-2011, 09:47 AM

An "S" Sedan is a base model

it just happens a fleet company of ours bought it

warneej

03-24-2011, 09:52 AM

And this is an option-less SE, not much difference as far as creature comforts.

mmmoose

03-24-2011, 09:52 AM

Just remember all of these pictures are of a more or less base model that is a fleet vehicle.

I thought the S was the base model. So the SE is the base model too? Nothing about it looks custom stripped down to me. It has all the standard options listed. And we even previously pointed out that they came with smaller screens with the interior comparison pictures. I mean how far do you have to bend backwards to see that all the pretty reviews we've been seeing so far only apply to the SE Sport Package/SEL/Titanium??

This is why I've repeatedly expressed interest in finding reviews that pertained to actual base SE models. Because everything we've seen so far has falsely given us the impression that every Focus will have nice leather, MyTouch, Sync, etc. I knew a lot of it was too good to be true. But personally even though I'm not thrilled by the price I don't think it looks as bad as many people make it out to be. It's not any less capable than the higher end models because it still runs on the same exact engine and technology.

You know... I felt the same way about the US spec Fiesta during its launch. I hated the redesigned front bumper and was disappointed to hear that it gained a few pounds. But after seeing and driving one in person I was thorougly impressed. This might be another one of those situations where pictures might not do it justice.

warneej

03-24-2011, 10:07 AM

I feel it will be similar to the original Focus. Remember the SE sedan lacked all the nice things, including a rear sway bar, and engine that actually moved the car, and a steering wheel that didn't fall apart under normal use. The ZX3 and the ZTS came with all the nice options, the nice interior (I still think my 04 ZX3 has one of the nicest interiors in the segment, even currently), as well as the handling upgrades that made the car what it is regarded as today. Even still, the majority of models sold were the base, hubcapped, SPI-powered appliances that provided the volume so nicer/faster versions had a case to exist.

On the 2012, the difference between the base S and the SE are pretty much just rear disc brakes and foglamps, as well as the ability to option the interior up to nicer standards. A base SE isn't much more than an S by itself. Personally I'm glad they offer the car with a low spec interior as well, it will help move the volume which makes the higher-end versions possible.

As an enthusiast I'm only interested in the top-range model with all the bells and whistles and now am very proud of where this car has grown to in the past 11 years in the US.

mmmoose

03-24-2011, 10:45 AM

The SE doesn't come with rear disc brakes until you add the SE Sport Package, which will run the price up to around $20k. I'd agree with everything you said except I guess I'm used to the way Ford handled the first gen ZX3's more. The first gen hatchbacks were treated with standard features that were considered premium for the sedans.

For example alloy wheels, fog lights, leather-wrapped steering wheel, rear sway bar, arm rest, etc. all came with the base ZX3. And the price wasn't that much more different than the SE sedan either (you had to get a ZTS sedan in order to get most of what's on the base ZX3). That all changed starting in 2005 when a lot of decontenting occurred...

The Fiesta still follows that same value structure of the very old Focus. The Fiesta SE comes really well loaded for its price. You don't feel like you're being cheated out of features if you opt out of the SES. The 2012 Focus throws that completely out and follows the newer value structure where you either pay for the highest options, or you deal with the bare minimum.

There's a bit of strange inconsistency with Ford's business decision when it comes to that. But I think that involves the different target demographics between the two vehicles.

19COBRA93

03-24-2011, 10:45 AM

Also, my pricing might a little skewed as I am in Canada and our pricing is a bit different, but here, to get the Elantra with Navigation, you can only have it in top of the line, which will run you $24,699.00
To get the top of the line Focus (leaps and bounds better), you will pay $24,499 plus $700 more for the navigation system, bringing to a total of $25,199.00. So I can't say that the Elantra is really any cheaper.
Also, you could simply by the SEL and add the MFT and navigation and still come out to only $23,299.00 ($1400.00 cheaper).

I as well drove the Elantra, and even considered buying it, so I have experience with it as well. I am not saying that Elantra is a piece of crap. I think that they have done an exceptional job on it (as well as other cars in their lineup in the past couple of years), I am just saying that it really is not on par with the Focus. To get the quality and technology you are getting in the Focus, you can not expect to pay the same price as other cars of lesser grade.

My point is that I do know what I am saying, I don't just throw out random crap. I read up a lot on cars, and have much experience both working on cars and selling them.

Just moments ago I jumped on www.ford.com, and www.hyundai.com and built a Focus and an Elantra, both very similarly equipped, middle models, 1 or two options, and no nav.

The Elantra GLS: $18,480
The Focus SEL: $23,185.

Every option available, top model:

Focus Titanium: $29,110
Elantra Limited: $22,880

As said, I think the Focus is a better car, but as it should be, it's more money.

Skippy905

03-24-2011, 11:24 AM

I just looked at the USA site of Hyundai, and it is VERY different than the Canada hyundai pricing (and models).

You only have two models to chose from, and we have three (GL, GLS, and Limited. Limited with Navi is also considered a model but shouldn't be).

The pricing in Canada is much more to fully load out a Elantra, making it very price comparable to the Focus.

So my opinions are now based only on Canadian cars, as that is quite a price difference in the US.

Albeit my opinion is still that I do not think the Focus is vastly overpriced for what you get. But would definitely rethink Elantra purchase if our pricing was the same as yours.

I have a feeling that if people continue to complain about the Focus pricing, Ford will bring the pricing down to meet the competition. But I'm sure that they will also bring down the level of amenities and quality to match as well. This right here is why we don't get the same models/options on cars as Europe, because we complain about the pricing right away.

19COBRA93

03-24-2011, 11:30 AM

I just looked at the USA site of Hyundai, and it is VERY different than the Canada hyundai pricing (and models).

You only have two models to chose from, and we have three (GL, GLS, and Limited. Limited with Navi is also considered a model but shouldn't be).

The pricing in Canada is much more to fully load out a Elantra, making it very price comparable to the Focus.

So my opinions are now based only on Canadian cars, as that is quite a price difference in the US.

Albeit my opinion is still that I do not think the Focus is vastly overpriced for what you get. But would definitely rethink Elantra purchase if our pricing was the same as yours.

We have GL, GLS, and Limited as well. Regardless, if prices were as close as yours, the Focus would be a no-brainer. And, I much prefer the 4 door hatch over a sadan which the Elantra isn't even offered in (unfortunately).

karguy427

03-24-2011, 11:59 AM

. The first gen hatchbacks were treated with standard features that were considered premium for the sedans.

For example alloy wheels, fog lights, leather-wrapped steering wheel, rear sway bar, arm rest, etc. all came with the base ZX3. And the price wasn't that much more different than the SE sedan either (you had to get a ZTS sedan in order to get most of what's on the base ZX3). That all changed starting in 2005 when a lot of decontenting occurred....

The decontenting started earlier than you think.
My daughter drives a '04 ZX3. It's got the D2.3, but also has crank windows, no foglamps, no armrest, etc......

Targon

03-24-2011, 12:28 PM

As others have said, the picture looks like it is a car that does not have everything set up yet, so we can't know for sure how it will look once it is prepped for sale.

Now, S vs. SE is one I can help with, since I have the old Tech Rebate sheet in front of me for the 4-door.

The SE ADDS 16 inch steel wheels, the S comes with 15 inch steel wheels.

Fog lamps start with the SE, not the S.

Automatic headlamps start with the SE.

MyKey

Steering wheel with secondary audio controls.

Power front and rear windows.

It looks like the S only has power front windows, not power rear windows.

The move from SE to SEL is pretty big, which it should be for the $3000 price difference:

PowerShift Automatic Transmission($1100 or so if you add it to the SE or S) with the SelectShift. The Sport package on the SE adds the SelectShift from what I have heard.

4-wheel disc brakes(also added with sport package from what I have heard, SE and S normally come with front disc, rear drum).

16 inch aluminum wheels.

Turn signals integrated into the side view mirrors

6-speaker audio system(S and SE have a 4-speaker AM/FM radio with single CD).

MyFord driver connect package with SYNC voice activated communication system($735 on the SE).

Interior Ambent Lighting.

Leather wrapped steering wheel with cruise control and secondary audio controls.

Dual-zone electronic automatic temperature control(great for when a front seat passenger is always asking you to turn up or down the heat/AC).

Power front/rear windows with one touch up/down on all windows.

Universal garage door opener

Perimeter Alarm

Now, aside from these differences between models, does the Elantra, or whatever you do your comparison against come with all of these features? I am not talking about prices with all options, I am talking about the base trim levels and trying to do a direct comparison. The Titanium has the sport suspension plus MyFord Touch stuff added to it, plus 17 inch aluminum wheels and push button start with intelligent access.

So, be fair. I don't think there are other cars you would compare the 2012 Focus to have the parking technology package, which is a $700 package. There are other things that the Elantra just won't have that you see in the 2012 Focus.

Also, 160 horsepower in the new Focus with 27/37 fuel economy(US figures)...

19COBRA93

03-24-2011, 12:41 PM

The decontenting started earlier than you think.
My daughter drives a '04 ZX3. It's got the D2.3, but also has crank windows, no foglamps, no armrest, etc......

There's an '04 ZX5 with a 2.3 in the classifieds here that is a no option base. Hubcaps, manual windows and locks, etc.

indy_11

03-24-2011, 01:58 PM

interesting. it went from new focus at a dealership to comparing new focus to an elantra. wheres the elantra?

19COBRA93

03-24-2011, 02:11 PM

So, be fair. I don't think there are other cars you would compare the 2012 Focus to have the parking technology package, which is a $700 package. There are other things that the Elantra just won't have that you see in the 2012 Focus.

Also, 160 horsepower in the new Focus with 27/37 fuel economy(US figures)...

This is why I feel the Focus and Elantra aren't comparable. The Focus is a better car, but also more money. It's more of a comparison if you compare the top model (Limited) Elantra to the middle model (SEL) Focus sadan. The electronics in the Elantra don't compare in any way to the Focus.

FWIW, the Elantra: 148 hp and 29/40 mpg.

19COBRA93

03-24-2011, 02:18 PM

interesting. it went from new focus at a dealership to comparing new focus to an elantra. wheres the elantra?

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/images/vehicle/hero/2011/elantra.jpg

deezx5

03-24-2011, 02:28 PM

deezx5

03-24-2011, 02:30 PM

interesting. it went from new focus at a dealership to comparing new focus to an elantra. wheres the elantra?

Here is mine, needs a tint

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8342/car2g.jpg

Here is my thread (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251169) with more pics

bryantest

03-24-2011, 02:56 PM

Look at the article below and note that their words are "The new engine makes the kind of high-pitched racket at high rpm that barges into your ear canals screaming, “Hey, I’m still an economy car!” And the Elantra’s ride is unnecessarily stiff and noisy"

Um er..this is engine noise coming from a naturally aspirated engine. I don't know why it should be taken as a negative.

Like I said, road noise is attributed to the low-resistance tires. You put those same low-resistance tires on the 2012 Focus (it's on the SFE package) and you would probably criticize the road noise as well.

And yes, I do agree with you the 2011 Elantra is not on par with the 2012 Focus.

indy_11

03-24-2011, 03:17 PM

Here is mine, needs a tint

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8342/car2g.jpg

Here is my thread (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251169) with more pics

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/images/vehicle/hero/2011/elantra.jpg

lol thanks, now we can officially compare.
c'mon guys, it's a matter of opinion. some people like price. some people like quality. some people like both. i just don't understand why there are hardcore debates about this

Skippy905

03-24-2011, 03:33 PM

[

Um er..this is engine noise coming from a naturally aspirated engine. I don't know why it should be taken as a negative.

Isn't the new Focus also naturally aspirated!?! Yet I have read automotive journalist reviews about how quiet the car is.

BTW Deezx5, nice car. I do really like the look of them as well, and the interior is nothing to scoff at. It will look very sharp with tinted windows. Don't think for a second that I am making fun of your car or trying to downplay it. It is a good car and IMO ranks second among the cars in it's class (with the Focus in first, of course)!

19COBRA93

03-24-2011, 03:36 PM

Isn't the new Focus also naturally aspirated!?! Yet I have read automotive journalist reviews about how quiet the car is.And the first thing we all do is an exhaust upgrade. Will engine noise really determine your purchase choice?

Skippy905

03-24-2011, 03:40 PM

And the first thing we all do is an exhaust upgrade. Will engine noise really determine your purchase choice?

I will not be doing an exhaust upgrade, and actually yes, engine noise would be a factor in my decision making. I'm getting a bit older, and would enjoy a nice quiet ride (without having to buy a Taurus or some full size sedan).

bryantest

03-24-2011, 03:41 PM

Isn't the new Focus also naturally aspirated!?! Yet I have read automotive journalist reviews about how quiet the car is.

My bad [hihi]

It is. but with direct injection. Therefore you won't have to worry much about the engine "screaming" when going uphill.

As for the engine noise of the 2012 Focus..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnesVjWi0go&feature=player_embedded

deezx5

03-24-2011, 04:21 PM

Isn't the new Focus also naturally aspirated!?! Yet I have read automotive journalist reviews about how quiet the car is.

BTW Deezx5, nice car. I do really like the look of them as well, and the interior is nothing to scoff at. It will look very sharp with tinted windows. Don't think for a second that I am making fun of your car or trying to downplay it. It is a good car and IMO ranks second among the cars in it's class (with the Focus in first, of course)!

All 4 bangers are going to be a little noisy, all depends on the driver and what they are used to

Also thanks I like it but its not the best car in the world lol just the best I could get for my budget. I'm still getting used to it and have minor complaints about the electric steering and suspension in certain situations. I'm also still getting used to the shift points of the 6 speed auto.

Gobird

03-24-2011, 04:31 PM

I'm sure not popular here but I wouldn't give $0.02 for a rice burner of any kind. JMO!

mmmoose

03-24-2011, 05:30 PM

I never understood why journalists whine about engine noise. IT'S A CAR!!! You know... that big thing with wheels that makes smoke come out the back and vroom vroom noises when you push a pedal down. Combustion engines are never going to be quiet. You literally have a series of timed explosions of gasoline vapor going on under confined spaces at a phenomenal rate. You can't just muffle that sound out with magic fairy dust.

And yes, Direct Injection has a distinct higher noise over regular NA engines. But it's not something that's deafening by any stretch of the imagination. I'll take a little additional noise if it means having 5-10 more mpg of fuel economy, thanks. Even the cheapest cars today have exceptionally great NVH ratings, compared to most cars from 10-20 years ago. So there's also that.

Other things to consider...

Completely quieting the cabin down will mask sounds coming from your engine, transmission, suspension, fuel pump, etc. You can't always rely on CEL's to tell you that there's a problem with these areas. Most people report them by SOUND.

I also like not getting mowed down by a fire truck/ambulance/police car/train at intersections. I listen to my music loud enough, so I don't need to be further deafened by a padded cabin. Hearing outside sirens and railroad crossings is always a plus.

I think manufacturers are aware of these issues and intentionally let some noise filter through. If it's not government regulation to have some sound seep through, then personally I think it should be (for safety reasons). Don't like noise? Don't drive a damn car. Buy a bike and start peddlin'. Damn hippies...

KeithLM

03-24-2011, 09:38 PM

I saw a 4-door Sedan SE at my dealership today. It is Sterling Grey with steel wheels. It looked pretty good. It's the first one they got in and it just arrived today. Yesterday they had someone from Ford in who was driving a black Titanium and showing it to the sales staff. He said they were told then that it had officially been released from manufacturing and that they are at the local holding lots or whatever they call those. So in the next few days we should be seeing more and more show up on the lots.

My salesman also showed me a small book given to him by Ford that provides a bunch of details on the cars. One thing it mentioned is that are predicting that 10% will be Titanium sedans, and 8% will be Titanium hatch backs. Also, with prior Focuses, most sales were sold to people, as my salesman put it that were needing a car and shopping around for something in their budget, and thus they'd pick one off the lot. This time they expect the demographics to change significantly and have more ordered as people will be coming specifically to buy the Focus.

RedsGT

03-24-2011, 10:19 PM