Considering the strategy of using expensive synthetic oil; topping up but changing the oil only every 10,000km (~6,250mi), and changing the filter - but not the oil - every 5,000km.

Is this practical with the SVT engine - or would most of the oil leak out when the filter is removed ? Considering two options: 1) rising the car vertically in a repair shop bay, or 2) driving the car up a ramp so that the car and engine sit at a (significant) angle.

Youe oil will drain when you go to take the filter off. Plan on changing the oil everytime you change the filter. And don't bother with synthetic. Just use the recommended Motorcraft oil with appropriate weight, a Motorcraft filter, and service it at the recommended 5000 mile intervals. It will save you the money and keep your engine running just as long.

If you switch out the filter then you might as well change the oil.

Youe oil will drain when you go to take the filter off

No, the oil won't drain when you remove the filter. I change my oil by first taking the filter off and putting the new one on. There is no more oil loss than if you drained the oil first. I agree that synthetics are over kill and a waste of money. Motorcraft oil in the red bottle is semi synthetic and it will do the job just fine.

There are a good number of people that do extended drain intervals with synthetics. Most also use an oil analysis program like www.blackstone-labs.com They can tell you more about your engine than just what's up with your oil. This is just me here but if I'm getting under the car to change out a filter then I may as well drop the plug and switch out some oil too. For most the extended drain is just getting the most for your money. I don't care to send off oil samples and all so I have no issue with paying for the new oil more often.

Before you take the guys opinion about not using synthetic oil, do your homework first...thats all i ask, don't want to start an argument, just making sure you do your own research, and yes, you can't really change the filter and not the oil.

I'll start the argument.

Synthetic oil is better than conventional oil in every category...except price. In the event you start to overheat, it will protect better. It holds its viscosity longer and can handle more heat.

If you can afford a $20K car you should be able to afford $24 of oil for an oil change. Mobil 1 5qt jugs can be bought at Walmart for $24.

Use full synth in the tranny too.

Originally posted by jb10fan
Before you take the guys opinion about not using synthetic oil, do your homework first...thats all i ask, don't want to start an argument, just making sure you do your own research, and yes, you can't really change the filter and not the oil.
Yep. This question always seems to turn into a religious war. I had a simple question about angles - some engine designs make it easy to replace the filter without losing the oil. Others (where the filter is at the lowest point of the engine) make it just about impossible.

I've been looking at this synthetic vs regular oil question many years - every time I buy a new car. The problem is that there are too many variables to calculate with any certainty if synthetics pencil out: relative purchase costs of the various oils, relative labour cost for getting an oil change, how long you expect to keep the car, mileage per year, etc, etc. It doesn't look like the slight gas mileage benefit of synthetic (mpg-l/100km) is enough to offset the higher cost of synthetic oils. Here in Canada, where rust is a big problem, the body usually goes before the engine, so there may not be any point in trying to extend the life of the engine with synthetics. Then there's the question of whether to get something that barely qualifies as synthetic - eg Castrol - or get ultra-expensive synthetics such as Redline which for sure aren't economical unless they are kept for extended drain intervals and maybe need periodic oil analysis.

Another issue is whether regular no-name oils available at Wal-Mart etc ( or Canadian Tire in Canada) are really sufficient, or whether they are just marginal. Are the cheapest "$1" oils really good enough because they meet industry specs, or are they just "refinery waste with a minimal amount of additives" which couldn't meet Euro specs and are meant for ignorant (North) American trailer trash ? You just can't get a straight non-weaseled answer.

It seems to me that just about the only thing you can say for sure is that if you want the engine to last more than a "usual" economic life without major overhaul - like you've got an unusual keeper car - then some form of synthetic will "probably" be more economical in the long run. Our SVTF may be such a car and we're fanatics... Another reason to use synthetics might be reduce the impact of car operation on the environment - fewer oil changes mean less pollution, etc - but this has more to do with politics/religion than economics...

One recommendation that surprises me is to use Motorcraft oil and filter. Maybe in the USA Motorcraft stuff is sold at competitive prices. Here in Canada, Motorcraft oil sold by Ford Dealerships is more expensive than some synthetics - and Motorcraft "synthetic" oil is ~$16/qt...

Read the petroleum institute studies and manufacturer studies... synthetics are a waste of time and money unless you are beating the absolute piss out of your car. They are simply a marketing ploy. Trust me... what the OEMs put their engines through with the run of the mill oils (Motorcraft, etc.) will far exceed what you do, and they are certified to 150,000 miles. Your engine will take a dump due to a manufacturing defect or failed oil pump way before it does from using the recommended oil. Don't waste your money... use the recommended grade, manufacturer, and filter when chaging the oil.

and yes, you can't really change the filter and not the oil.


and yes, you CAN change the filter and not the oil. I recommend using motorcraft semi synthetic oil, but that doesn't mean I am against synthetics. I used to run amzoil with the amzoil filter. I would change the filter every 3,000 miles and top off the oil, then change the oil and filter at 20,000 miles. But it is a waste of money. On my 1985 ranger, I change the oil every 3,000 miles and use valvoline dino oil and it has 275,000 miles on it with no problems. It is starting to have blowby, but it still runs strong. The point is, use the recommended oil and you won't have problems.

Originally posted by zslaton
Read the petroleum institute studies and manufacturer studies... synthetics are a waste of time and money unless you are beating the absolute piss out of your car. They are simply a marketing ploy. Trust me...
Any thoughts why Ford European Focus Zetec factory engine fill is apparently semi-synthetic oil ?
A waste of money ?

I'm curious why Ford Europe apparently regards API oil ratings as insufficient, and insists on ECEA A1 rating.

Originally posted by zslaton
Read the petroleum institute studies and manufacturer studies..

Now there's an unbiased source of info.


If you're gonna sell the car in a few years, it's not worth running syn. I, on the other hand run my cars 'till they're all done. The only reason I retired my CIvic Si at 175k is I was tired of no AC and wanted a better freeway cruiser (gearing too low). I'm running Mobil 1.

everyone seems to be ignoring the most important part of my original post... the damn thing is certified with motorcraft semisynthetic, and the abuse and torcher the company puts that engine through is ten times worse than any one of us will put it through on the road. Trust me... I see or hear about the tests every day.

If you are running an agressive turbo setup with high operating pressures and high revs, full synthetic racing oil may be worth it. But for 99.99% of us on this message board, some type of less expensive, off the shelf, manufacturer's oils is just fine.

BTW, Motorcraft 5W20 is a semisynthetic oil. As to why FOE requires a different grade oil, I have no idea. I just know that in North America, going with the manufacturer's recommendations is more than enough to last the life of the vehicle.

Originally posted by zslaton
everyone seems to be ignoring the most important part of my original post... the damn thing is certified with motorcraft semisynthetic, and the abuse and torcher the company puts that engine through is ten times worse than any one of us will put it through on the road. Trust me... I see or hear about the tests every day....BTW, Motorcraft 5W20 is a semisynthetic oil. As to why FOE requires a different grade oil, I have no idea. I just know that in North America, going with the manufacturer's recommendations is more than enough to last the life of the vehicle.
Apparently you're not understanding that the factory fill for SVTs is NOT semi-synthetic. It is ordinary mineral oil. 5W-20 used in other Focus models may be semi-synthetic - but the 5W-30 "Super Premium Motor Oil" which fills the SVT - according to the Owner's Manual Supplement I'm reading right here in front of me - is not semi-synthetic or synthetic. See also www.motorcraft.com/standard.asp?T=2&M=44&PageID=74. So, apparently Ford-Europe fills the SVT (S170) with semi-synthetic, but we slobs in North America get the refinery waste. I called yetserday and was told the local Ford dealer wants ~$16/qt for the REAL Motorcraft synthetic 5W-30.

I'll throw a wrench in this...

I agree that what Ford recommends will likely withstand anything that we could do to a stockSVTF. To contradict myself, I will admit I use Mobil1. I'm too one of those guys that plans on running a vehicle for a looooong time. I use Mobil 1 bc the additives and the higher quality base oil "stock" is less volitile at high temps. Bc of this, the oil is less likely to sludge up and cause build up in the engine. Build up can cause vital oriffices in the engine to clog over time and starve a part for oil. If you don't believe me I have what was once a nice 24V Mazda V6/Probe GT engine in the garage that had sludge issues. Ya, it's dead.

To add to my point, I've pulled a part more ultra-highperformance bike engines to know that Mobil 1 is good poop. Guys that used synthetic oil still had cross hatching on the cylinder walls, while guys using conventional oil didn't. In this case it worked too good! The rings never seated. This is why in our manuals it says not to use synthetic till after break in.

One more addition... Benz, Vettes, and I believe Cobra R's have Mobil 1 stickers under the hood from the factory. Need I say more?

I guess I will. Euro cars typically run at higher compression than cars here. They sometimes (like on the autoban) will run at sustained higher rpms than most cars over here ever would. Back to my 1st point; this is likely bc of the oils ability to hold up to higher temps, not to mention some eco-natzis probably don't like something that we Yanks use in our oil.

OK, I'm done. Commence to telling me that I'm a complete idiot and that I know nothing.

I use Mobil 1 because:
1) I am a fan of babying my car. I take the best possible care of it I can and plan to drive it until it dies or I can affoard a Cobra.
2) It helps the engine to run at a lower temperature, putting less stress on the engine and making it less likely that the car will overheat in traffic on a hot summer day or any given time.
3) It lasts a lot longer without causing as much potential harm to your engine. You can go 5,000 worry free miles, and that is just the minimum. I change my own oil, so being able to change it once for the brunt of the winter is a big deal.

Obviously, while it shows such a miniscule wear, other oils do a very close job to this. The difference may be minimal here, but thats not the only reason I use it.

no point in arguing this...i know how my car reacted to royal purple, and thats all the answer i need, if u want to use dino-pee super premium junk then be my guest, i could care less.

Ford-Europe fills the SVT (S170) with semi-synthetic, but we slobs in North America get the refinery waste.

Turns out Motorcraft now sells high-mileage Semi-Synthetic (P/N XO-5W30-QHM) as well as the regular Motorcraft Semi-Synthetic (P/N XO-5W30-DSP)

Talk about "Holy old threads Batman!".

You revived a dead thread!!![sleeping]

At least hes like adding information he has found. i love it when they are 4 or 5 years old and the person wants to argue with a post from the years back. It makes me laugh, but he is the o.p. hmmmmm....