I figured it's about time I get this started, the parts are beginning to roll in in a more serious manner. I've been around here for... a while. This turboing a zetec stuff isnt exactly new to me, but I could still stand to learn a thing or two.

Here is my car:

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227836

And a condensed mod list since I know only half of you will follow that link

MTX75 swap w/ Exedy OEM clutch
Torsen
Rally brake kit with Axxis ULT front pads
Koni yellow fronts, Bilstein PSS9 rears on Eibach pro-kit springs (wagons have progressive rear springs in the pro-kit)
10.5:1 compression with FR2 cams, Eibach valve springs, Supertech valves
3" intake with 3" maf, FC 65mm throttle, and the 2000IM
2.25" FS Stealth exhaust with JBA shorty and RT HFC and the 2.25 flex off of the old Goatmobile (only the OG's will remember this one!)
SCT Pro Racer tuned by moi
200,000+ miles

It's a pretty sweet NA build that I havent changed much for the last 3 years. I'm really happy with it. But I am bored.

Goals are to have a reliable kit with just enough power to barely have traction in 2nd gear and really good throttle response and spoolup. Plus I'm going to do some less popular things just to keep it interesting for me. This kit is not about making power or impressing the masses. I enjoy fab work and making problems for myself to solve.

Some of you may notice the high mileage and high compression. I just did a compression test the other day, it sits at 185 190 190 190. Before I tuned the intake cam and fixed my valve lash it was over 200 on all 4. I'm not too concerned about the mileage. I will be keeping the rev limiter at 6500 to avoid shredding my rods.

The compression will make things interesting. It will definitely help spoolup and off-boost response, but my timing is already pretty low at full load. If I end up having to go BTDC, I will have to go get a head out of a junkyard and go back to stock compression, or pick up a Cometic .065 headgasket.

Some parts I have already:
3" MAF tube that is on the car and tuned already
MAFia but I don't think I'll need it for the power I'm looking for.
35/38mm Turbonetics Evolution wastegate with 9psi spring
WG dump tube
1G DSM BPV (I may be switching this out for something else.) (Edit okay yeah im getting a SSQV knock-off and pulling out the bird whistle fins)
green giant 42lb injectors (not green tops) on the car currently tuning them

And stuff I need to get still:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=d83n6b9_3dfbz9wg4

If you looked through that link you would have noticed some AWIC parts. There pros/cons of AWIC/AAIC are well-documented. Here's my take: I don't like the look of a FMIC, and I really dont like all of that tubing. You can get much better response with shorter intake piping. So, my charge piping will consist of THREE pipes (90 bend, straight-through intercooler, MAF).

I will be using the auto trans cooler as my heat exchanger to start off. I know I am going to get a ton of slack for this, because people think you need this huge bucktooth heat exchanger hanging off your bumper. But, have any of you TRIED it? If it doesnt work well, I will upgrade. Again this is not some epic 500whp build so I really dont think I will need that much capacity.

A ton of factors went into my turbo selection (reliability, ball bearings, v-band housing availability, price, spool characteristics, high rpm characteristics) and I landed on the gt28rs. I know, it's based on 20 year old technology, blah blah blah. But you can't deny that it is OEM reliable, and does just fine for a 220-240whp build with room to grow later. Plus I am getting it for a REAL good price (I wish I could say but I cant). It took me a long time to pick it so I'm sticking with it.

So here is the first pic, these came in this week. Probably many more pics to come.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc222/illinipo/turbokit/IMG_7017.jpg

Your wagon is awesome. Can't wait to see this build take shape!

About time!!!!

Now get to work and get that thing turbo'd [poke]

I like the idea and am looking forward to seeing more ppl fabbing :)

This is gonna be sweet. Remind me to be on the lookout for a blue wagon this summer if you're near me...

good luck with the build...the tranny cooler/heat exchanger will do just fine just run a good fan on it...a tranny can put ALOT more heat into the atf than the turbo will put into the water to air cooler. the gt28rs is a great turbo and with a short pipe run will give you near instant boost. looking forward to see how this turns out..as far as the high compression a water/meth injection system such as an aquamist programmable jobbie should take care of that.

Yeah meth is an alternative to the headgasket or head. It depends what I want to do with the car at that time. I hate the idea of always needing to refill the meth container, and if it runs out I blow my motor. The car will be seeing boost daily.

That was my thinking, that the atx puts a TON of heat in that oil. The cooler should be more than enough.

so pete, i'm jealous. especailly since you are probably going to weld the manifold up yourself.

Manifold, DP, and I'm even looking at some aluminum welding on the inlet for the BPV port. [:)]

Looks awesome man. Join the list of us Turbo Build people. Theres 5-10 of us.

Gonna be a bunch of new Boosted Foci this summer. [8D][8D]

Very nice. I'm glad to see more people doing this. I just wish I had my freaking welder so I can do more fabbing.

pretty cool that you are doing all this yourself. much respect!!

Good luck, I'm looking forward to the build!

Need the shop?

its looking like I'll be alright. I should be able to mock things up pretty well with measurements and such. Then I'll probably take the header and cat off on a Friday afternoon and spend a weekend building the downpipe and welding up the turbo inlet on the manifold. It's not a big deal if the car stays down into the beginning of a week since I can just bus or ride my bike to work. And my wife will be working within walking distance.

I should mention everything is going to be tig welded. I'm just using mild steel tubing flanges and weld els with ER70S since I plan on wrapping it all anyway

bout time [thumb] can't wait to see the results. it's nice to see all the new builds !!
my wife wants to turbo her wagon next summer also. it's pretty cool that both of you autocross your wagons...props to ya!

Manifold, DP, and I'm even looking at some aluminum welding on the inlet for the BPV port. [:)]

jsut to warn you aluminum is a bitch to weld, since it just soaks up all the heat. but it looks like you'll have a really nice setup when finished.
tig welding it will take a while. have fun.

yeah this isnt my first foray into tig. I'm looking forward to the challenge. The biggest bitch will be keeping the sch 40 pipes and 3/8" flanges preheated.

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but when are you hoping to have your build done by?

yeah this isnt my first foray into tig. I'm looking forward to the challenge. The biggest bitch will be keeping the sch 40 pipes and 3/8" flanges preheated.

You dont need to preheat any of those size thicknesses, get the pipe together where you want and run a .35 wire roots pass, then go back over it with some 1/16 filler rod and you will be good to go. do the same with flanges etc. ALU isnt bad its just softer idk if you have ever welded ALU but when welding when the puddle gets shiney is when you dip the rod. Looks like a good build [headbang]

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but when are you hoping to have your build done by?

You didnt miss anything. I don't have a goal in mind. I've been working on this build for almost 2 years now.

Thanks for the advice, Jim! I'll probably post in here if I end up having problems.

...come to think of it I think the flanges are 1/2" but that extra 1/8 shouldnt matter for preheating.

I saw the mani and i was like YESSSS!!!!

LOL

lol

im kind of pissed in general right now for no good reason so ill probly head into the shop and start on the manifold later on. I took measurements this morning of how much I need to take off. i was thinking of throwing them on the lathe so i can get a nice bevel with the chamfer bit but i'll probly just hit them with the 36 grit disc sander.

looks liek its gonna be a goo build, i built my own custom engine and turbo setup but had to sell it off before it got installed cause i had a kid on the way... I'm probably gonna build it again soon anyways seems im in a much better financial situation

This kit is not about making power or impressing the masses. I enjoy fab work and making problems for myself to solve.

Admit it, you're just an automotive sadist.....

Good luck with the build, I wish I had more fabication tools/skills. I'm looking to buy a friend's lathe when he upgrades.

How far have you come along with using the SCTPRP and tuning, work out all your major bugs on the NA motor yet?

I am very very close to having a factory quality tune. These injectors were just dumb, once I get them fully figured out im going to throw a value file on the PRP forum because this is a joke what I had to go through. And to think Randy told me the SCT value file works just fine for him with these injectors...

Plus I think my wideband is on its way out, I've been getting really funky readings. But don't want to pop the 50 bucks for a new sensor if thats not the problem.

I am very very close to having a factory quality tune. These injectors were just dumb, once I get them fully figured out im going to throw a value file on the PRP forum because this is a joke what I had to go through. And to think Randy told me the SCT value file works just fine for him with these injectors...

Plus I think my wideband is on its way out, I've been getting really funky readings. But don't want to pop the 50 bucks for a new sensor if thats not the problem.

Glad you got all the details sorted out, I was very happy with my results too. The SCT PRP is a good system to learn tuning on.

You should be able to check you wideband's behavior on a good running low miles stock vehicle no?

BTW - My new engine should be flowing about 115 lbs/per hour max, I'm looking for some ~32# injectors, with 4 hole design. Any recommendations?

any pics of progress so far pete? or are things still where they were a bit ago?

I am very very close to having a factory quality tune. These injectors were just dumb, once I get them fully figured out im going to throw a value file on the PRP forum because this is a joke what I had to go through. And to think Randy told me the SCT value file works just fine for him with these injectors...

.

I agree that the value files are off some but you seem to bring a lot of the issues on your self with over complicating the tuning and how the software is used

Tom

Glad you got all the details sorted out, I was very happy with my results too. The SCT PRP is a good system to learn tuning on.

You should be able to check you wideband's behavior on a good running low miles stock vehicle no?

BTW - My new engine should be flowing about 115 lbs/per hour max, I'm looking for some ~32# injectors, with 4 hole design. Any recommendations?

i checked up on my wideband and things look ok. I need to go back to the high slope I had before and try again. I tried lowering the high slope a bit becuase i was hitting just over 1.0 load for a few hundred rpms, I wanted to make the load more realistic so I pulled 5% from the injector and MTF. But instead it just made the afr vary a lot from pull to pull, sometimes it will do 12.4 sometimes 13.1. It didnt do that at the original value.

A lot of the problem is i'm reading after my HFC, so the reading is around 1-2% lean, meaning my MTF is about 1-2% rich. If I go out and tune with the WB in the front o2 spot I bet i would pull some fuel and end up right at .98-.99 load.

I would recommend the white 39lb especially since there is a good value file for them.

I agree that the value files are off some but you seem to bring a lot of the issues on your self with over complicating the tuning and how the software is used

Tom

Pretty much all of the complicating things you saw in that tune were from testing of this rich issue, most if not all of them have been set back to stock.

any pics of progress so far pete? or are things still where they were a bit ago?

I havent had a chance to do anything yet. I spent about two hours on the injector values but didnt get very far. I was rushing to get both the low slope right and get good afr's that night because I had a race the next day... but now that i know i had a good high slope originally despite slightly unrealistic load I can make better progress and change one thing at a time.

okay new plans are in the works.

My car is old, and this kit is never going to make more than 220-240whp. I have had a VERY hard time justifying an $1100 turbo for this mild and otherwise inexpensive build.

My friend pushed me over the edge. I will be using a k04 out of a mazdaspeed3.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii5/azms3/MS3compressormap.jpg?t=1198288557


At 1.6 pressure ratio (9psi) and .12-.15 flow, I will be VERY close to peak efficiency. If I ever go back down to stock compression (very likely since I am bound to throw a rod at some point) and run 1.8 pressure ratio (12psi) this turbo will really kick some ass. I will go straight through the middle of the center island.

So since he is giving me an epic deal on one of these and the vband adapter for the downpipe flange is affordable at ATP, I'm gonna go ahead and save myself close to $1000 and use this turbo.

The only trouble will be sourcing a flange for the manifold, but looking at the flange on the turbo, I might be able to drill some new holes in my t25 flange I already got. My friend said I can also saw the flange off his cracked tubular manifold but I think it is stainless and dont feel like trying to weld stainless to mild with the gas and filler I have.

Anyway I'll try to update the parts list as I learn more about this turbo (updating oil and water line adapters mostly).

Oh and here is a pic from ATP comparing the mazda k04 to the 3071:

http://www.turbopacs.com/images/pr227atp-ms3-005_450-21.jpg

Thats a good choice. Normally i dont like the whole using a small stock turbo on the focus but you know what your doing so more pawr to you.

It's a small turbo for a 2.3, but k04 swaps on Audi 2.0t's have a nice fat torque curve, full boost just before 3k and holds all the way to 5500-6k where it just starts to drop off a tad. Although the k04 they use is slightly smaller than this one. The compressor map doesnt lie, I will be right in the wheelhouse of this turbo. Where if you look at the 2554 map (generally considered a small turbo around here), efficiency runs out around 20lb/min of flow which is like 180-200whp.

I like the k04 choice. The cheaper this gets the more I want to copy it. [:)]

Glad to see you are finally getting some more work done to the wagon. Cant wait to see it.
Posted via FF Mobile

yeah the NA build is a ton of fun but its been a good 3 years since I did anything drastic. The 3" maf was a really nice mod but thats about all ive done for power in the last 3 years.

I should also mention that I decided not to use the DSM BPV, since if I use it as a BOV it needs a filter on the end, or if I recirc it that's more piping and money and headache... so instead im gonna go with the SSQV knock-off BOV from siliconeintakes and remove the fins so theres not epic bird in heat sound, just a nice loud deep exhale of NOM.

have you started on the manifold yet

unfortunately no, I just finished up the semester last week so now I have time but the shop is tied up this week since its the week before competition. I should be starting it on Saturday. Goal is to have it fitted on Saturday ready for welding. I might tack it together.

Is there an order you recommend doing the welds? I was going to tack it to the head flange, then do the welds between the el's, then do the welds to the flange. I'll probly do ~3/4" runs then move to another spot. I figure ill need 100-110 amps for sch 40 mild. Most of my experience is with .049-.065 4130 and we use 60-80 amps for that stuff.

I like this so far. This is the kind of build I would do. Stock parts FTW!!

unfortunately no, I just finished up the semester last week so now I have time but the shop is tied up this week since its the week before competition. I should be starting it on Saturday. Goal is to have it fitted on Saturday ready for welding. I might tack it together.

Is there an order you recommend doing the welds? I was going to tack it to the head flange, then do the welds between the el's, then do the welds to the flange. I'll probly do ~3/4" runs then move to another spot. I figure ill need 100-110 amps for sch 40 mild. Most of my experience is with .049-.065 4130 and we use 60-80 amps for that stuff.

same here had my last finals last week.

I lay the head flange down and put the two middle tees togther first and do three tacks on the pipe not the flange. I only use the flange to get the right spacing. Then do each 90 bend and tack. Then I backpurge and weld the runners and then a filler weld. After that I weld it to the flange

awesome thanks. But I shouldnt need to backpurge since it's just mild right?

Do you do any cutting on the 90's? The way I see it, its best to do all of the cutting on the tees.

Mild and stainless you backpurge you don't have to since it's yours and if it cracks you can jus weld it back. As ling as you get good penetration you shoulnt have a problem with not backpurging. And yes I cut about a 1/4 in off

Sorry to hijack but I'm curious what all you learned about using the DSM BPV as a BOV, because that's exactly what I'll be doing soon.
I wasn't sure if it would allow unfiltered air to be drawn in, and/or if it would cause a boost leak at least momentarily.
Aside from a bit of unfiltered air though, I wonder if there is any harm in running it.
I'm going to take a look at that one from siliconeintakes.


I should also mention that I decided not to use the DSM BPV, since if I use it as a BOV it needs a filter on the end, or if I recirc it that's more piping and money and headache... so instead im gonna go with the SSQV knock-off BOV from siliconeintakes and remove the fins so theres not epic bird in heat sound, just a nice loud deep exhale of NOM.

like any BPV the DSM BPV is normally open in vac. it closes under boost. So yes you would need to put a filter on it unless you want unfiltered air getting into your engine.

This is the one im getting.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?cPath=11&products_id=498&osCsid=1f0d00571f4517214a6692fd965d8ecd

It comes with a 1.25" hose outlet so you can use one of these which I am also using

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?cPath=11&products_id=399&osCsid=1f0d00571f4517214a6692fd965d8ecd

When I'm finally turbo'd I think I'll run the fins in the HKS until I get annoyed. People think of Fast n' Furious when they hear the HKS...but eventually I'll want it less ricer-ish, haha.

yeah im just gonna take them out as soon as it gets to my house. the non-finned HKS sound actually sounds legit.

i wish i knew how to weld.. i have soo many ideas but no skills and no money to pay some one to do it
ahah good luck with the build

Ok im bored and this thread needs a bump.

My motor is old. Dont know how much it has left. Compression is still over 190 on all 4 and has not changed at all (I usually do a test once every 3-4 months). BUT it has 202,000 miles on it... So I need to get my ducks in a row Re: a replacement motor should it decide to destroy itself.

So I got to thinking about an SVT shortblock, thinking that it was going to be about $300 for a running one. (Found out later its gonna be more like 500-600...). At $300 this would have been about $6/HP if I could go from 220 to 280whp but then I found out theyre expensive and hard to find. Plus ive seen a lot of failed ring land pictures... I'm not a big fan of boosting stock SVT pistons.

So then I looked into what I originally planned on, junkyarding a stock shortblock for like $150-200, buying a headgasket and swapping my head on (I have ARP's, so only $30 for the HG for the swap). this would be good and all, but junkyards dont really sell zetec shortblocks. I'd have to get a longblock and do something with the head. Fortunately I found a couple longblocks about 7 hours away for $150.

THEN I thought, well hey, what if I just go stock longblock for $150. Back to 9.6:1 so no more heat issues. Back to stock cams so I have guts under 3000 rpms again. And I can sell off my sweet head package on here for a cool $500 or so. And I'll still have the same power, just turn the boost up to 12.

So, I see three options

1. SVT block. Expensive, hard to find, ring lands hate boost. Probly cost around 500 total.
2. lower mileage stock block. Would have to buy a longblock and sell the stock head off it. Probly cost around 200 total.
3. Stock longblock. Sell current NA built head and come out $300 ahead overall (make money!). Better low-end response. Get rid of heat issues. Easier to tune.

As you can see, I'm leaning to #3. But I am really sad to see this head go. Ive had such a great time with it over the years.


Another question. How will the motor most likely fail due to age? Will I have a couple weeks' warning like Jeff (Wagamos)? Or will it be catastrophic like rod bearing seizes up and motor barfs a rod?

Are you looking to build internals? I got a block you could snag from me for cheap, only issue would be shipping but then again i plan on going to busse, so i could bring it along. Its my current motor, im pretty sure the issue is rings, but i dunno how the cyl walls look. I could take the head off you were seriously interested and could then sell the head seperate. I even have a set of low mileage pistons i could sell you off of the motor i built.

Not looking to build, if I want to build I have a blown up SVT block with clean cylinders locally that I can pick up cheap

But thanks :)

I got one of those too. Crank is just junk. :D

I have to agree, #3 makes the most sense.

Interestingly I haven't seen anyone else use a k04 on a Focus. This seems strange because they are relatively cheap and look like a good fit for stock motors.

flanges are the issue.

hpmh this thread deserves an update.

well my turbo supplier is a little flaky... but I cant complain hes doing me a huge favor. But things might get complicated with that so.... Theres a chance I'll still end up with a 2860. I'll know more in about 2 or 3 weeks.

I lost my shop access somewhere along the line, so I havent been able to touch my manifold. I'm getting it back on the 28th. So you better believe I'll be in the shop that night. But I'll need to borrow a camera because I left mine with my sister in Costa Rica :/

So another development, since im running low boost and getting this guy

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Vehicle%20Specific/ATP-MS6-009_450.jpg

I'm seriously considering running internal gate instead of a screamer pipe. I might go ahead and weld the flange on no matter what, and just use a block-off plate. That way I can throw the screamer on when I want it and go internal otherwise. [:D] Glad I typed this out, I didnt think of that option before just now! Any thoughts on the matter? Just saying "internal sucks" is not a valid answer, I'm going to run at the stock WGA pressure which I believe is 12psi on that turbo. So with that nice transition to the 3" vband the internal will do JUST FINE.

I'm getting it back on the 28th. So you better believe I'll be in the shop that night. But I'll need a photographer because my camera is with my sister in Costa Rica :/

FTFY [thumb]

I posted a vid of the sound of my/your BOV, with the tri-star piece still in place:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234316

I'm personally just going to leave it in.
I wasn't going for a particular sound and it sounds OK like it is.
Thanks for the recommendation, I definitely like it.
It is a pain to get together though.