Well it has finally hit the fan...the accellerator pedal thing has gotten out of control (as if...). Toyota is shutting down assembly lines and halting sales from dealerships while they figure out why their cars have become outta control hotrods.

http://jalopnik.com/5457679/toyota-halts-sales-of-eight-vehicles-for-your-protection

This is like...holy crap...

FINALLY, they are beginning the "acceptance" phase of their issue. dont get me wrong i dont want to see toyota fail i just want them to stop playing its not our fault games and fix it which they are in the process of doing!!!! hand clap for toyota motor corp :D

Wow that's insane. Sounds like they are going to step up to the plate on this issue now.

Wow...my mom drives a 2009 Corolla. Maybe she should sell it and buy a Focus.

Buy American.

More on Yahoo news... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100127/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall)

Buy American.

i agree even though im in a mazda 6 right now but it still has a ford motor lol if it didnt I wouldnt be in a mazda.

I agree, buy USA!!

Wow, Toyota went from not acknowledging any liability or fault to shutting down numerous north American assembly lines. This is sure to win back our trust, what a strategy.

Sucks for toyota owners

Are these throttle by wire vehicles?

their cars have become outta control hotrods

I know what you mean, but saying the word "hot rod" and "Toyota" in the same sentence just aint right. Toyota knows as much about hot rods as Mother Theresa knew about drive-by shootings. [rofl]

Im glad Toyota is finally suffering. Its about time they got called out and, like the rest of the automotive world, face the humiliation of mass recalls and public scrutiny.

Are these throttle by wire vehicles?

Yes. My fiancee's 2008 Camry being one of them.

Are these throttle by wire vehicles?

Yes. lol

i agree even though im in a mazda 6 right now but it still has a ford motor lol if it didnt I wouldnt be in a mazda.

and isnt the usdm 6 built in a ford plant here in the states?

and isnt the usdm 6 built in a ford plant here in the states?

Yup. AutoAlliance in Flat Rock,Michigan-right alongside the Ford Mustang

And nobody has ever endorsed throttle by wire except manufacturers. Looks like they won't be saving any money on that....

Usa, usa, usa

Ford FTW!

http://www.failpix.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/fail.png

Buy American.

Since all of Toyota's factories are in the us. Where were a lot of earlier foci made? Do I hear Mexico? That isn't an American made car then is it?

Get that "buy American" out of your head......if you're driving a Focus. About the only thing American is the name.

Computer-controlled throttles.....horrible idea on a passenger car. Here you have another system designed to appease the EPA (might lower the emissions), but at what cost in lives? Thanks A. Gore, and the rest of the morons running the country.

This is the sort of problem the manufacturer usually would just throw at some poor mechanic at a dealership. I've been through that before.....they'd send a few factory technical people over (usually clueless). After looking at the problem for a while, the response as they were leaving......"You're on your own, Buster".

Since all of Toyota's factories are in the us. Where were a lot of earlier foci made? Do I hear Mexico? That isn't an American made car then is it?

All of Toyota's plants are not in the US, many of their vehicles are still made in Japan and imported here. And yes, Focuses were built in Mexico.

Mine is made in the USA!

Mines a Michiganian too

^^^^^^You're talking about where it was assembled. Assembly in the USA using mostly foreign-made parts, does not make an "American" car, only something put together here. But call it what you want....

Wait... WTF???

Computer-controlled throttles.....horrible idea on a passenger car. Here you have another system designed to appease the EPA (might lower the emissions), but at what cost in lives? Thanks A. Gore, and the rest of the morons running the country.

Electronic throttle/braking/steering/etc. systems are meant to replace their mechanical counterparts to reduce weight, complexity, and save space. They're usually modular components which are neatly integrated into the car. Because they contain fewer parts, they are arguably more reliable... but typically cost MORE to replace since they are sold as whole units. They might also help work with the ECU to improve gas mileage, but it has NOTHING to do with emissions.

Traditional systems are typically cheaper to repair since you can single out separate components and diagnose the problem easily, BUT they also usually contain more parts that could break in general. They can also weigh a little more when compared to their electronic counterparts. However they generally provide outstanding feedback with the road, whereas electronic systems tend to numb everything down. NEITHER system is perfect. There ARE tradeoffs.

It's funny because people who are constantly demanding and whining about wanting lighter/smaller cars should be thankful to have electronic systems to replace heavy/complex mechanical components. Our cars are getting heavier and heavier due to government mandated components/standards and SOMETHING has to be done to counteract all that added weight. Electronic systems are part of that solution, and the reason why nearly ALL newer cars have those systems. It's NOT a Toyota exclusive technology.

Also.... when was Al Gore running the country?

Look...all these sorts of electronic controls are there to make the cars run cleaner and burn less fuel (emissions). Of course there are supposed to be side benefits....just didn't quite work out in this case.

The country is being saddled with Gore and his buddies in congress.....who are making the rules where cars are concerned. What's the latest "goal".....something like 35mpg across the line-up?

Hopefully, Toyota can fix the problem with an ECU re-program, but I bet it gets more involved. Toyota employs many Americans to assemble their cars right here, rather than Japan. Toyota loses=America loses more jobs.

Mines a Michiganian too

A kick in the nuts to those who think all Foci arent American. [nutkick]

And just because a Focus is made in Mexico (as mine was), doesnt mean its not American. Last I checked Mexico was part of, what? Thats right, the Americas. So technically its still an American car, even though it isnt USA-made. [hihi]

And a Toyota made in Kentucky is still a Japanese car, just assembled by Americans. The parent company is Japanese, bottom line.

For the record I'm not defending Toyota or saying electronic systems are superior. Personally I think most Toyotas are boring and ugly as hell. They've just never been inspirational cars for me. And over the years I've learned that I would also prefer having an old school power steering pump and traditional throttle system over anything electronic assisted. So yeah, don't take my post the wrong way.

However!!! I do think that electronic systems have their benefits and uses. And one of the great things about them is that you can get them chipped if you don't like the factory settings (for example throttle delay, steering sensitivity, etc.). For someone to say that it's a completely useless junk technology whose sole purpose is to appease a hippy government... sorry that just comes off sounding a little ignorant to me. No offense.

bluefront, the EPA is not at fault for everything, lol. Ever hear of Fly-by-wire? I'm sure pilots had the same misgivings when commercial and military jets switched to that control system. Were there probably crashes and deaths because the computer malfunctioned, yep, but it has in time proven itself to be a good move (Try flying a B2 without computer control). Car manufactuers would have moved towards computer control regardless of EPA regulations. They've been promising drive-by-wire for years. At worst, it may have pushed car manufactuers to introduce it a little sooner than they otherwise would have.

Also, this appears to be a problem with a physical part from an American supplier. Toyota is not having this problem in Japan. So, I would hold your horses before you folks jump on the buy American bandwagon and let all the information come out.

As to how Toyota got itself in this mess, it's clear that it started when they made the strategic decision to focus on sales growth to overtake GM instead of remaining steadfastly focused on quality and letting the cars sell themselves.

drive by wire is a horrible system. I like stuff that is easily fixed by any one with some skills and I am a trained electronics texh and it is damn near impossible for me to work on these systems let it be the average shade tree mechanic.
I want total control no power steering, no ABS, no traction control, Mechanical throttle, etc.
Seems to me that an electronic throttle would weigh more then a mechanical throttle, which consists of a pedal, a cable and a heavy return spring.

I know what you mean, but saying the word "hot rod" and "Toyota" in the same sentence just aint right. Toyota knows as much about hot rods as Mother Theresa knew about drive-by shootings. [rofl]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA thats a great analogy!

well, bad news for toyota owners...woooo ford!

drive by wire is a horrible system. I like stuff that is easily fixed by any one with some skills and I am a trained electronics texh and it is damn near impossible for me to work on these systems let it be the average shade tree mechanic.
I want total control no power steering, no ABS, no traction control, Mechanical throttle, etc.
Seems to me that an electronic throttle would weigh more then a mechanical throttle, which consists of a pedal, a cable and a heavy return spring.
I certainly understand your concerns. It's getting increasingly difficult not only for mechanics, but DIYers as well. It's not the electronics itself that bothers me, it's the increased intergration of all the electroncs that I have a problem with. I don't care if a throttle is electronic or mechanical, but at least make it modular so that if I need to replace it, I can just unbolt the old one and bolt in a new one without having to have super expensive equipment to do the job or having to replace whole systems intead of the actual malfunctioning part.

Leave the airplanes out of it.....that's another subject. These automotive systems have become so complicated, the usual factory-trained mechanic who can fix most everything else on your car, doesn't have a clue where to start with this problem. In fact....if the mechanic calls the Toyota tech dept, and asks specific ECU/computer-related questions, he usually gets a blank.

I like a high-MPG car as well as anybody, but cost and the complication of the thing, puts me off. Ever lifted the hood of a Prius and tried to name the parts? This is what the EPA is driving all the car companies to copy. This fly-by-wire fiasco gives you an idea of the things to come.......cars that nobody can fix, except maybe the factory.

As to why the Japanese Toyotas apparently don't have this problem.....I'd guess a different ECU program of some sort, designed to fix some imaginary "problem", and mandated by the USA EPA. Just a guess.....

Oh....I'd also guess the fix will involve a bunch of different pieces, trying to cover all the bases. Like a new throttle body, a new ECU or a reprogram, and maybe a new ECU wire harness with a bunch of different sensors. $$$$$

We could all go back to the good ole days of points, rotors and condensors, carbs and hell, while we're at it, 6v electrical systems and crank start. Will that satisfy those looking for "simplicity" and "ease of working on." ?

http://www.autofieldguide.com/mag_images/090602b.jpg

Well these sort of electronic systems were supposed to be simplified, modular designs. Accessing and diagnosing a problem with this system is indeed a HUGE pain in the ass... but at the same time it's only a matter of swapping the system for a fix (and yeah it is more expensive). Okay... so it's obviously not perfect right now, because it's not truly "modular" in the ideal sense, but I think in time as technology advances they'll get better.

Just as a comparison, check this (http://coysdenver.com/images/service/steering.jpg) out. You need power steering fluid, a power steering pump, a reservoir to store the fluid, tubes to transport the fluid, and a few other components. This system is obviously much easier to diagnose and fix, but the chance of failure is a little higher with all the additional parts. The weight savings might also seem minimal for one system alone... but when you've got numerous systems adopting electronic "modular" components, the weight and space savings become a little more apparent.

Coming from a Volkswagen now, I can say that I do indeed hate electronic steering assist. It's actually adjustable, so it can be tight all the time like the Focus's, but it's intentionally locked out even with VAGCOM (VW's ECU diagnostic tool). I do however know that I can at least get my car chipped to remove the factory throttle delay and give it a little more responsiveness. And that's only the tip of the iceberg. The number of things you can do with VAGCOM to tinker with your car's systems is insane. Most DIY projects on some of the newer VWs involve swapping modular components (including electric) that are literally plug-n-play. The biggest problem is that it can get a little pricey. Reliability has never been an issue either.

Basically it's possible to make a reliable and fun car that uses multiple electronic systems. If you know where to look, you can make all kinds of crazy adjustments to suit your personal tastes. Just don't expect long-term maintenance to be cheap, IF some of those components eventually give out. Luckily Toyota is sucking it up and paying for their problems.

Toyotas new slogon wooooooooooooooooooooooooo toyota.

The point is, there is a happy medium here.....somewhere between the simplicity of a Model A, and the complication of a 747. IMO...we've passed the medium point a few years back.

I like to think my '06 Focus sits right on the sweet spot.....no fly-by-wire, no ABS, no electric seats.... no other such nonsense. I do enjoy the power brakes, auto-trans, power steering and power windows. There are a lot of people here who go for even more simplicity than my car. My complaint.....a few more MPGs would be nice.

But in a few years you won't be able to buy a "simple" car at all.....much less work on it. And these fly-by-wire sort of problems will become the norm.....

The point is, there is a happy medium here.....somewhere between the simplicity of a Model A, and the complication of a 747. IMO...we've passed the medium point a few years back.

I like to think my '06 Focus sits right on the sweet spot.....no fly-by-wire, no ABS, no electric seats.... no other such nonsense. I do enjoy the power brakes, auto-trans, power steering and power windows. There are a lot of people here who go for even more simplicity than my car. My complaint.....a few more MPGs would be nice.

But in a few years you won't be able to buy a "simple" car at all.....much less work on it. And these fly-by-wire sort of problems will become the norm.....

I tend to agree with you on a lot of that. There are several things I miss about my Focus. I hate ABS and drive-by-wire, for example. But I DO love having side airbags and traction control. I wouldn't mind some newer cars if they gave us the OPTION to disable/remove some of these newer features, but it looks like government regulations are forcing some of these things on the consumer for the sake of everyones' general safety. THAT'S what I have a big problem with.

Technically you could still bypass some of these systems by messing with the ECU or pulling fuses/sensors/whatnot... but good luck getting the dealership to honor the warranty on your new car, passing state inspections, or collecting an insurance claim when something DOES end up going wrong and you're caught with those types of mods. Hate to say it but cars are getting less and less fun with each new generation... (and in most cases uglier too)

[bigcry]

Well eventually it'd all be fixed and perform just as well as the mechanical type.
Just needs some time

We could all go back to the good ole days of points, rotors and condensors, carbs and hell, while we're at it, 6v electrical systems and crank start. Will that satisfy those looking for "simplicity" and "ease of working on." ?

Just give me some gauges, 3 pedals, heat (dont need A/C), crank windows, all wrapped in a nice, light body with decent power (ie Elise or Exige). Colin Chapman is my hero. [headbang]

Just give me some gauges, 3 pedals, heat (dont need A/C), crank windows, all wrapped in a nice, light body with decent power (ie Elise or Exige). Colin Chapman is my hero. [headbang]

And the sad thing is you have to fork out $40k for a brand new stripped down car like that. Kinda funny how removing "luxury features" increases the price.

[scratch]

I wish manufacturers would stop inflating car prices by tacking on useless packages that I don't even need/want. The last good "base" option car to come out was easily the Focus. The current offerings are Versa, Yaris, Aveo, Accent, and whatever Kia equivalent there is out there. Yawn... The Fiesta will hopefully change that perception again.

What happened here?

I guess they're slogan will change from "moving forward" to "can't stop"!!!

I'm glad someone brought up airplanes. There is a REASON they should stay there.

How many of you guys check your tire pressure every time before you go drive? I'm betting that number is less than 1% of the user base here. I don't do it, even though we all should.

Guess what happens before an airplane takes off, especially a military one? Every square inch of the plane is checked and tested.

Also, you have to consider the difference in materials grade. Aircraft are made with special grade parts and materials where cars are wired up using pot metal and also operate in harsher conditions very often. I don't know whose bright idea it was to do all this stuff but they should have horrible things done to them.

so just some numbers for you guys, i know how the media puts the twist on situations like this...

5 reported cases of improper accelerator pedal operation....yeah only 5, when you think about how many models are included in this recall and how many units are on the road, the numbers seem very minimal. 5 out of 270,000. there are two different pedal assembly's installed in these cars, denso and cts, the denso version is fine, the "cts" model is the assembly that is having the reported issues. thumbs up to toyota for doing something now and not waiting to see if there are more reported cases of problems.

I know this off topic but Toyota related. About a month ago I drove by the Toyota dealer by me house and there was a semi unloading a trailer of frames. Looked like truck frames. All the techs were just watching. Did toyota have trouble with their trucks too?

Did toyota have trouble with their trucks too

there were some issues with the older model tacomas, 98-02's i think, they were being recalled for chassis inspections, excessive corrosion on the frame rails. if the chassis failed, they switched them out(along with leaf springs,control arms, brake lines etc.)

If anyone here thinks Toyota was being thoughtful in pulling cars off the market, guess again. They were legally mandated to do so.
Toyota-was-legally-required-to-stop-selling-models (http://detnews.com/article/20100127/AUTO01/1270400/1148/auto01/U.S.--Toyota-was-legally-required-to-stop-selling-models)

5 out of 270,000.......I think those numbers are off. They may be "confirmed" by Toyota numbers, or something of the sort. Listening to the talk radio shows this morning......a number of people reported this trouble, in St Louis area alone.

I don't think these incidents are that rare.....

more info here...
toyota recall (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100127/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_recall)

I have paid close attention to the yahoo article, where Toyota was forced by the government to stop selling the models, however, they continued to sell them in the US for 5 days after that mandate, and they have "not decided what to do" in Europe.

Then I recall the LA Times article, http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/23/business/la-fi-toyota-secrecy23-2009dec23, where it blasted Toyota for covering up problems through obfuscation and other business tricks. Toyota obviously blasted it down on their website, http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/our-point-of-view-post.aspx?id=2378.

It is pretty obvious that owners are coming up with problems and Toyota is out of gunpowder. I hate to say it but this is going to hurt them. I don't mean anything specific against Toyota, however, I studied white collar crime in college and the automakers (ALL of them) were thoroughly discussed. I think this will go down with the Corvair and Pinto alike...its just that they did it this time. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

hmm, that electro - mechanical steering is sure thing way more complicated then my mechanical drag link steering

A kick in the nuts to those who think all Foci arent American. [nutkick]

And just because a Focus is made in Mexico (as mine was), doesnt mean its not American. Last I checked Mexico was part of, what? Thats right, the Americas. So technically its still an American car, even though it isnt USA-made. [hihi]

And a Toyota made in Kentucky is still a Japanese car, just assembled by Americans. The parent company is Japanese, bottom line.


The Focus is a Ford Europe design, and has been variously built in Mexico, USA, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Philippines, Taiwan, China and Russia from globally sourced parts.

Toyota operates plants in 11 states in the USA directly employing thirty six thousand people, including three thousand in R&D, engineering and design. They too build cars using globally sources parts.

Oh and the company that supplied the sticky pedals was a US company based in Indiana [poke]

Oh and last time I looked Colin Chapman was not American either [poke]


Just quit the country xenophobia will you please. Its pretty unpleasant to read.

Bottom line, Toyota messed up, Toyota need to make things right.

It is pretty obvious that owners are coming up with problems and Toyota is out of gunpowder. I hate to say it but this is going to hurt them. I don't mean anything specific against Toyota, however, I studied white collar crime in college and the automakers (ALL of them) were thoroughly discussed. I think this will go down with the Corvair and Pinto alike...its just that they did it this time. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

True, but you have to admit the step of blocking the sale of models that account for more than half of Toyota's US sales is unprecedented. Perhaps it's a sign of how times have changed since the days of the Corvair and Pinto? I don't know. This is a PR nightmare for Toyota though. The company that Toyota was trying to eclipse is now poised to make sales off this whole affair, by offering buyer incentives.

BTW why is everyone assuming the American parts manufacturer is to blame for the issue? Because Americans can't build the same part as the Japanese and have it actually work as designed? I don't see any actual fact stating that the CPS-sourced accelerator is the cause, only that it is in question? Kind of like how the floor mats were in question not so long ago. As in, Toyota still doesn't know what the hell is going on.

Oh and to go a few pages back, what is wrong with ABS brakes besides high cost of replacing parts?

I guess they're slogan will change from "moving forward" to "can't stop"!!!I heard it was, "Can't stop moving forward."

Guess something was lost in the translation...[???:)]

Charles

I'm no lover of Toyota but can someone explain to me how halting sale of some Toyotas isn't a conflict of interest since the Feds own part of GM and Chrysler...

I'm betting the increasing body count, and questions/concerns from Toyota owners, took precedence over any conflict of interest issues.

Charles

GM offering Toyota owners trade-in incentives, seems like a desperate move by a desperate company.

Ford hasn't done it.

EDIT: This morning, FORD has offered the same trade-in deal for Toyotas that GM has.
I'm surprised, really, but in this cut throat market, looks like all is fair...

You have to wonder what GM is going to do with all those must-have trade-ins?

Charles

Looks like Toyota expands this recall issue (on the floor mats, which they are still considering a separate issue) yet again:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100128/AUTO01/1280426/

Holy Crap.... let me fix this problem.... Even if it was assembled in Mexico with parts from Mexico to reduce our cost of price.... It still carries an American Badge with American Standard of Quality and Reliability.... Therefore IT'S AMERICAN!!!

PS... If you don't like it then get the hell out! LOL....

I heard it was, "Can't stop moving forward."

Guess something was lost in the translation...[???:)]

Charles

[rofl][rofl]HAHAHAAHAHAAAHA!!!![rofl][rofl]

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g225/pipejaimes/Random/MovingForward.png

Not mine, but still funny nonetheless... ;-)

Tis been expanded into China and Europe

The Focus is a Ford Europe design, and has been variously built in Mexico, USA, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Philippines, Taiwan, China and Russia from globally sourced parts.

Toyota operates plants in 11 states in the USA directly employing thirty six thousand people, including three thousand in R&D, engineering and design. They too build cars using globally sources parts.

Oh and the company that supplied the sticky pedals was a US company based in Indiana [poke]

Oh and last time I looked Colin Chapman was not American either [poke]


Just quit the country xenophobia will you please. Its pretty unpleasant to read.

Bottom line, Toyota messed up, Toyota need to make things right.

First off, dont lecture me about being "xenophobic", Im hardly such a person. Do you even know what xenophobia is??? You sure toss the word around rather carelessly!!! Secondly, it doesnt matter where the car was designed, built, made out of what parts, etc, etc... where the dollar ends up is the most important. And in the Focus' case, the dollar will end up in Dearborn. Its not hard to figure out. A million Civics could be built in Ohio, but the dollar/yen will end up in Japan.

And what the Sam heck does Colin Chapman have to do with anything regarding the recall at hand? Sure I mentioned that I loved his philosophy when it comes to cars being simple and lightweight, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Toyota's screw up now does it? Please dont lecture me about Colin Chapman, amigo. Id be the first person on earth, besides Colin and his parents, to know he's not from the USA.

Your silly lecturing and stereotyping is far more unpleasant to read than anything else.

the defective part i read about for the cars was made in Canada. here is a list of where Ford makes stuff.
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In This Section
Geographical Directory
Manufacturing Plants by Type
Geographical DirectoryWorldNorth AmericaSouth AmericaEuropeAsia PacificAfricaSelect a different region using the tabs above, or click a country on the map below to view plants in that country.

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Canada
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United States
CanadaAssembly plants
Oakville Assembly
Oakville, Ontario
Total employment: 3,820
Products: Ford Edge, Ford Flex, Lincoln MKX, Lincoln MKT (Summer 2009)
Year opened: 1953
Plant size (sq ft): 5,464,000
Site size: 487 acres

St. Thomas Assembly
St. Thomas, Ontario
Total employment: 2,460
Products: Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car
Year opened: 1967
Plant size (sq ft): 2,600,000
Site size: 635 acres

Engine Plants
Windsor Engine
Windsor, Ontario
Total employment: 1,850
Products: 5.4-liter V8 2-valve and 3-valve engines, 6.8-liter V10 2-valve and 3-valve engines
Year opened: 1923
Plant size (sq ft): 2,100,000
Site size: 38,746

Casting/Forging Aluminum Plants
Essex Aluminum (Joint venture – 25% Ford/75% Nemak)
Windsor, Ontario
Total employment: 940
Products: Cylinder heads
Year opened: 1981
Plant size (sq ft): 500,000
Site size: 53 acres

Windsor Casting
Windsor, Ontario
Total employment: 600
Products: Cylinder blocks and crankshafts
Year opened: 1934
Plant size (sq ft): 500,000
Site size: 22 acres

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MexicoAssembly Plants
Cuautitlan Assembly
Cuautitlan
Products: Ford Fiesta (early 2009)
Year opened: 1970
Plant size (sq ft): 4,000,000

Hermosillo Stamping and Assembly
Hermosillo, Sonora
Total employment: 3,335
Products: Fusion, Fusion Hybrid, Milan, Milan Hybrid, MKZ
Year opened: 1986
Plant size (sq ft): 1,650,307
Site size: 279 acres

Engine plants
Chihuahua Engine
Chihuahua
Total employment: 690
Products: 2.0 and 2.3-liter Duratec engine
Year opened: 1983
Plant size (sq ft): 727,000
Site size: 247 acres

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United StatesAssembly Plants
AutoAlliance International, Inc. (Joint venture – 50% Ford/50% Mazda)
Flat Rock, Michigan
Total employment: 3,500
Products: Ford Mustang, Mazda6
Year opened: 1987
Plant size (sq ft): 2,700,000
Site size: 400 acres

Chicago Assembly Plant
Chicago, Illinois
Total employment: 1,560
Products: Lincoln MKS, Ford Taurus
Year opened: 1924
Plant size (sq ft): 2,700,000
Site size: 113 acres

Dearborn Tool and Die
Dearborn, Michigan
Total employment: 828
Year opened: 1939
Plant size (sq ft): 375,000
Site size: 9 acres

Dearborn Truck Plant
Dearborn, Michigan
Total employment: 3,200
Products: Ford F-150 pickups
Year opened: 2004
Plant size (sq ft): 2,300,000
Site size: 600 acres

Kansas City Assembly Plant
Claycomo, Missouri
Total employment: 4,440
Products: Ford Escape, Ford Escape Hybrid, Mercury Mariner, Mercury Mariner Hybrid, Mazda Tribute, Ford F-150
Year opened: 1951
Plant size (sq ft): 4,734,765
Site size: 1,269 acres

Kentucky Truck Plant
Louisville, Kentucky
Total employment: 3,847
Products: F-250–F-550, Super Duty pickups, Ford Expedition, Lincoln Navigator
Year opened: 1969
Plant size (sq ft): 4,626,490
Site size: 500 acres

Louisville Assembly Plant
Louisville, Kentucky
Total employment: 1,550
Products: Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, Ford Explorer Sport Trac
Year opened: 1955
Plant size (sq ft): 3,154,173
Site size: 180 acres

Michigan Assembly Plant
Wayne, Michigan
Currently closed for retooling; will open in 2010
Year opened: 1957
Plant size (sq ft): 2,866,000

Ohio Assembly Plant
Avon Lake, Ohio
Total employment: 1,935
Products: Ford Econoline
Year opened: 1974
Plant size (sq ft): 3,700,000
Site size: 419 acres

Twin Cities Assembly Plant
St. Paul, Minnesota
Total employment: 880
Products: Ford Ranger, B-Series
Year opened: 1925
Plant size (sq ft): 2,144,932
Site size: 148 acres

Wayne Stamping & Assembly
Wayne, Michigan
Total employment: 3,335
Products: Ford Focus
Year opened: 1952
Plant size (sq ft): 3,710,000

Stamping Plants
Buffalo Stamping Plant
Buffalo, New York
Total employment: 734
Products: Center floor pan, front floor pan, rear floor pan, body sides, front doors, quarter panels, rear doors, roofs, hoods
Year opened: 1950
Plant size (sq ft): 2,446,347
Site size: 118 acres

Chicago Stamping Plant
Chicago, Illinois
Total employment: 900
Products: Body panels
Year opened: 1956
Plant size (sq ft): 2,040,220
Site size: 136 acres

Dearborn Stamping
Dearborn, Michigan
Total employment: 419
Products: Mustang, F-150/Super Duty, Escape, Focus, Navigator, Expedition
Year opened: 1939
Plant size (sq ft): 2,700,000
Site size: 35 acres

Walton Hills Stamping
Walton Hills, Ohio
Total employment: 480
Products: Body side panels, deck lids, doors, fenders, floor pans
Year opened: 1954
Plant size (sq ft): 2,100,000
Site size: 111 acres

Woodhaven Stamping Plant
Woodhaven, Michigan
Total employment: 1,200
Products: Door panels, floor pans, hoods, quarter panels, roofs, tailgates, truck body sides
Year opened: 1964
Plant size (sq ft): 2,190,000
Site size: 409 acres

Engine Plants
Cleveland Engine Plant 1
Brook Park, Ohio
Total employment: 250
Products: 3.5-liter V6 EcoBoost engine
Year opened: 1955
Plant size (sq ft): 1,600,000
Site size: 93 acres

Cleveland Engine Plant 2
Brook Park, Ohio
Total employment: 385
Products: 3.0 and 3.5-liter V6
Year opened: 1955
Plant size (sq ft): 1,445,000
Site size: 127 acres

Dearborn Engine and Fuel Tank
Dearborn, Michigan
Total employment: 825
Products: 2.0 and 2.3-liter I-4 engines and steel fuel tanks
Year opened: 1941
Plant size (sq ft): 2,327,000
Site size: 49 acres

Lima Engine Plant
Lima, Ohio
Total employment: 700
Products: 3.5-liter Duratec V6, 3.7-liter Duratec V6
Year opened: 1957
Plant size (sq ft): 2,424,360
Site size: 312 acres

Rawsonville Plant
Ypsilanti, Michigan
Total employment: 1,385
Products: Air/fuel, alternator, fuel pump, injectors, throttle bodies, wiper motors
Year opened: 1956
Plant size (sq ft): 1,000,000

Romeo Engine Plant
Romeo, Michigan
Total employment: 1,074
Products: 4.6-liter 2-valve and 4-valve V8 engines, 5.4-liter 4-valve supercharged engine
Year opened: 1973
Plant size (sq ft): 2,043,778
Site size: 268 acres

Sterling Axle Plant
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Total employment: 1,986
Products: Axels
Year opened: 1956
Plant size (sq ft): 2,800,000

Transmission plants
Livonia Transmission Plant
Livonia, Michigan
Total employment: 1,304
Products: 4R75E and 6R transmissions, service components
Year opened: 1952
Plant size (sq ft): 2,835,581
Site size: 182 acres

Sharonville Transmission
Cincinnati, Ohio
Total employment: 1,468
Products: Gears, converters, 5R110 transmission
Year opened: 1958
Plant size (sq ft): 2,421,000
Site size: 182 acres

Van Dyke Transmission Plant
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Total employment: 1,200
Products: 4F27E (FN) and 6F50 (6F Mid) automatic transmissions, stampings
Year opened: 1968
Plant size (sq ft): 1,823,718
Site size: 146 acres

Casting/Forging Aluminum Plants
Cleveland Casting
Brook Park, Ohio
Total employment: 765
Products: Cylinder blocks and heads, crankshafts and bearing heads
Year opened: 1952
Plant size (sq ft): 1,600,000
Site size: 103 acres

Dearborn Diversified Manufacturing Plant/Dearborn Tool and Die
Dearborn, Michigan
Total employment: 450
Products: Suspension parts, truck axels, stampings, tire and wheels, frames
Year opened: 1946
Plant size (sq ft): 850,000
Site size: 27 acres

Woodhaven Forging
Woodhaven, Michigan
Total employment: 60
Products: 5.4-liter V8 and 6.8-liter crankshafts
Year opened: 1995
Plant size (sq ft): 60,000

back to topReport Home> Our Operations> Manufacturing> Geographical Directory> North America.

GM offering Toyota owners trade-in incentives, seems like a desperate move by a desperate company.

Ford hasn't done it.

EDIT: This morning, FORD has offered the same trade-in deal for Toyotas that GM has.
I'm surprised, really, but in this cut throat market, looks like all is fair...

You have to wonder what GM is going to do with all those must-have trade-ins?

Charles
I'm not surprised. This is a golden opportunity for Ford and GM to regain chunks of lost market share. GM would love to be able to say that they retook the #1 spot.

First off, dont lecture me about being "xenophobic", Im hardly such a person. Do you even know what xenophobia is??? You sure toss the word around rather carelessly!!! Secondly, it doesnt matter where the car was designed, built, made out of what parts, etc, etc... where the dollar ends up is the most important. And in the Focus' case, the dollar will end up in Dearborn. Its not hard to figure out. A million Civics could be built in Ohio, but the dollar/yen will end up in Japan.

I'm well aware of what xenophobia is. What was disturbing was you being against a company simply by virtue of the fact that their HQ is in another country.

Where the dollar ends up is important. Persumably by your argument the 36 thousand Toyota workers, work for free and don't take home any pay ? Perhaps the 135K+ workers in the USA who supply Toyota don't either ?

Basic macroeconomics tells us that the money they earn circulates through our economy. So against your claim, most of the $ stay here.

I'm well aware of what xenophobia is. What was disturbing was you being against a company simply by virtue of the fact that their HQ is in another country.

Where the dollar ends up is important. Persumably by your argument the 36 thousand Toyota workers, work for free and don't take home any pay ? Perhaps the 135K+ workers in the USA who supply Toyota don't either ?

Basic macroeconomics tells us that the money they earn circulates through our economy. So against your claim, most of the $ stay here.

Like I said, Im not xenophobic. Learn how to read and assess my comments before before you assail me with more usless allegations and stereotypes. For the last time.... I DONT CARE WHERE THE CARS' COUNTRY OF ORIGIN IS. Youre talking to a long time Toyota owner here, dude. Ive owned a Geo Prizm GSi (a rebadged Corolla--built in CA), two Toyota p/u trucks ('87 and '90--one heavily modded with lift kit, etc), and a 96 Paseo, which I traded in on my SVTF.

Of course the workers get paid, but who writes the checks? Not Ford or Peugeot, thats for sure! And youre probably correct that most of the money that the workers make here stays here, but all the major profit from all those Tundra/Camry/Corolla/etc sales goes straight to Toyota in Toyota City, Japan. Wherever the company's world headquarters are is where the profit goes, bottom line. A Camry made in Winchestertonfieldville, IA is still a Japanese car. A Ford made in Hermosillo, Mexico is still an American car. A Z3 made in South Carolina is still a German car.

All those idling factories and halted Toyota sales due to the current recall are the result of what? Corporate HQ in JAPAN making the decision. Even though the factories are here in the States, its Japan who controls everything about the company. Everything.

The recall has been extended to Europe too....pretty much the recall is global now and effects almost every car in their line-up. Still very glad that I persuaded my parents not to buy a Toyota.

is that 36,000 workers world wide?There was a article in the paper and there is not that many people in the U.S.working for toylet most was the Camry plant at 3500 second was like 3200 then the rest under 1500 in 9 or 10 plants.as postes above Ford employs more then that.

In one of the atricles I found this note....

Toyota had been aware of issues with the pedals for more than two years but in June 2008 declared reports of sticky pedals were a "drivability," rather than a safety, issue.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100127/AUTO01/1270400/1148/auto01/U.S.--Toyota-was-legally-required-to-stop-selling-models#ixzz0dz1s2xrk


The Feds finally put thier foot down after problems were still being reported after floor mats were removed and pedals modified in the recall launched last year.

I just saw that Toyota recalls over 3.8 million vehicles (I know I'm late).
Funny thing is, Lexus is included..god I hate subsidiarys....

Oh I'm sorry i was wrong, Lexus is just a "Division" of Toyota...yea right

there shipping gas pedals to fix the problem......wow

^^ yea, they are shipping them to the plants not the dealers!
For Toyota drivers, confusion and anger (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35150948/ns/business-autos/)

I'll be quite surprised if a "sticking gas pedal" is the entire issue. That certainly won't cause the car to accelerate as you're driving along. Plus....even a half-ass mechanic could figure out that problem, when a customer brought in a car with that complaint. Even after most accidents the gas pedal could still be examined.

Sounds to me like the first of a bunch of "cover all the bases" type of fix......and similar to blaming this problem on floor-mats, their initial explanation of unexpected acceleration.

We'll see. [scratch]

Some years back, Datsun Z-cars were involved in so-called "sticking pedal" issues. One woman smashed her son against a wall, blaming it on the gas pedal. Her explanation....."The harder I pushed the brake, the faster the engine would go." Maybe you can figure that out yourself......had nothing to do with a faulty gas pedal at all.

dont trade them in yet. We just go a email at my dealership to double check black book and kbb values along with other values as they have dropped tremendously.

dont trade them in yet. We just go a email at my dealership to double check black book and kbb values along with other values as they have dropped tremendously.


We received email and fax notifications this morning from the legal counsel of the Detroit Area Dealer's Association, recommending that dealers don't even take in the affected Toyota models in trade. We'd be the last ones to get cars fixed and there would be a huge liability placed on the dealer if we sold a car that had an issue down the road. The value of the car after it's fixed is also at question.

Local black book values have plummeted the past few days. Affected Toyotas at auction are pulling anywhere from 3-5K less than they were last week. We've also heard rumblings from some lenders that they are now looking at their position in regards to financing said vehicles.

So does that make this a good time or a bad time to buy a used Toyota? Prices lower than ever before, but the bank won't want to finance your purchase?

So does that make this a good time or a bad time to buy a used Toyota? Prices lower than ever before, but the bank won't want to finance your purchase?


It's a real Catch-22. Banks clearly are being more cautious today, in light of the economy. Hell, when GM announced they were shuttering Oldsmobile, most lenders kept right on lending on them for several months before finally shutting off the tap. Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn, etc. are on or will soon will be on the "won't finance" chopping block of many lenders already.

My 2 cents ? I wouldn't touch one right now. It's way too early to tell how things are going to shake out. I'm just really cautious and would give this time to settle and see just how this is going to affect long term values of the products.

In my case it would be a moot point because I have zero desire to own a Toyota, new or used. Unless it was a mint Mk. IV Supra or Mk. II MR2 Turbo. [:D]

In my case it would be a moot point because I have zero desire to own a Toyota, new or used. Unless it was a mint Mk. IV Supra or Mk. II MR2 Turbo. [:D]

I hear ya there. Those would be the only two I would have interest in, too.

In case you haven't seen it yet.....Here's the supposed fix. (http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/01/autos/toyota_gas_pedal_fix/). A single shim in the gas pedal......shakes head. A problem like this should have been recognized first thing. I can hardly believe this is the whole issue.....[scratch]

If you want to know what owners are really getting with his "fix", find out what Toyota is paying the dealer to perform each fix......I'll guess about .3-.5hr labor.

That means.....the poor mechanic has to find the car on the lot, bring it in, perform the fix, clean up after himself and the car, take it back out, and fill out a bunch of paperwork on the computer. That means he'll be working about 6 minutes on the "fix" itself.....and that includes no time whatever on a road-test. Been there........

If you own one of the Toyota recalled vehicles - do the world a favor - 'safety wire' all of your connectors and seal them before you bring your car in for "the fix".

It's been said here enough times and I agree, there is something else involved. What better way for Toyota to shift the blame onto someone else, the little guy in Elkhart Ind., and blame it on an out sourced part.

While they have "all" the cars returned for a pedal mod they can unceremoniously update the firmware/computer code with 'routine' updates.

..... and when you get your car back - let us know if any 'seals' were broken....

Elkhart is going to need some lawyers - wasn't a politician just there recently ..........

I guess at this point the safest car in the lineup is also its smallest(Yaris),and that's only because it's still built in Japan where they at least have some quality controls in check.

A Canadian suit says there is more than the pedal.
Check this out (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/canadian-suit-alleges-toyota-electronic-throttle-control-defect/)

Heh.....so they are going to update the ECU program, along with the pedal "fix". First time I heard that. Maybe they do have a real "fix" after-all.

If so I'd bet the lawyers told them not to admit the whole truth.....trying to shift the entire blame to the maker of those pedals. This is going to be a long battle in the courts, I'll bet.

Fly-by-wire......forget it on my cars.

They've had plenty of time to study the problem. On our 07 Camry (that we only owned for three months) had this acceleration problem (Toyota called it surging at the time) along with other quality/drivability issues. They were well aware of this back then, because of many complaints that were occurring with this problem, that I overheard as I waited for them to find the problem in my own vehicle. I've kept my stack of service request documents that show of the ongoing problem at the time.

I also filed a complaint about this and the other issues with the NHTSA in March of 2007. My complaint can be seen here: (TYPE in the ODI number 10186112 at) http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ Just searching the database for these Toyotas will bring up many, many complaints about this. So, they obviously knew of the problem back then.

That car is the reason I now drive Ford after being a Toyota person for 22 years. I'll never buy another Toyota. Fords are so much better in quality now. [wiggle]

If there's a U.S. class action suit, I'll definitely try to get in on it because of the loss I had when Toyota couldn't fix the problem and I had no choice but to get rid of such an unsafe car.

Those bashing drive-by-wire systems better get used to it, or stick with buying used cars from now on. Almost every single new car out there (regardless of manufacturer) uses the system, as well as others like electronic assisted steering, stability control, electronic brake assist, etc.

I'm personally not a fan of all this assist crap either, but we're all going to have to bite the bullet eventually. Fortunately some of the sportier trim models of some cars retain tight and responsive driving dynamics (with minimal electronic assists). Unfortunately you'll need to cough up a little more dough to buy 'em.

On a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know if the Fiesta at least retains the tight steering of the first gen Focus? I love that they offer a leather wrapped steering wheel... but for me it won't feel the same unless that steering is tight also. If they can get the same feeling down (tight steering, no throttle delay, etc.) with all these new electronics, you'll get no complaints from me.

After this Toyota fiasco......it is a definite possibility other manufacturers will rethink these sorts of electronic controls. It would not surprise me a bit if Toyota was put out of business.

Everything about the whole Toyota thing is going down the tubes. Trade-in value shot, loan companies having second-thoughts about a Toyota loan, banks getting stuck with used Toyotas nobody wants, other dealers hesitant about trading in a Toyota. Bare show-rooms, combined with an already slow economy/sales........looks bad for Toyota.

Remember the exploding Ford Pinto......hurt Ford badly, and started the trend toward Japanese cars. This is worse....pray your Focus throttle doesn't stick.

The exodus is already happening...
Ford Motor Co.'s sales rose 25 percent in January (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35200833/ns/business-autos/)

And another link

Transport secretary calls Toyota ‘safety deaf’ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35201553/ns/business-autos/)

Tonight they interviewed, ABC World News, Steve Wozniak. Wozniak is considered a computer genius - something to do with him being a co-founder of Apple Inc.

He drives a 2010 Prius and has had the unintended acceleration problem. He tried to contact Toyota and the 'government' about the problem but they never talked to him - so he went to the media.

It is Wozniak's opinion that this is a computer problem. Is he qualified to make this statement..........

For real?? That's awesome. I'll have to search for that.

EDIT:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas/apple-founder-toyota-problem-software/story?id=9728007

Sounds like Woz has a different problem since it affects the cruise control, but still perhaps indicative of faulty software programming...

Hmmm. Electromagnetic interference...may we say, cellphones, commercial, amateur, and cb radio? Near-field RFI sources from BC stations? And, the worst offender under the hood; ignition and supporting electronics? Microwaves, radar guns?

OK, that may be stretching it a bit above, except for possibly cellphones, but intriguing nonetheless.

Pedals, mats, and unknown RFI?

If I were a Toyauto (typo intentional) owner, I'd be livid with anger. Smokin'.[:(!]

Why didn't Steve offer empirical proof of his claim? Is it just a case of him hitting his + stepping switch many times, thereby "stacking" acceleration commands, much like a keyboard "stacks" key strokes? The vehicle will accelerate very quickly when this is done, and will not stop until the last stroke is processed.

I've done this many times with many vehicles over the years, including Fords. I want to see an actual video of him doing whatever it is he claims to be doing to cause the runaway, with camera trained, then, on the speedometer. I would hope to see a runaway acceleration, past the stacked inputs, and into dangerous, triple-digit velocity (assuming a Prius may attain triple-digit velocity), until he cries, "UNCLE", and taps the brake.

He didn't offer-up any air-tight proof of his claim, in the linked article.

Charles

^steve sounds like a douche to me... he co-founded apple and he drives a prius...

and like you said, he probably hit the pedal a bunch of times or held it for a while then let it go... either way resulting in a continued accelleration in cruise control without pressure applied to the brake....

Does the Prius come with standard or optional radar proximity gear?

I'm trying to cover all the bases, with what he said he had, on the Prius.

I'm a ham radio nut, and I've had some high-powered HF through UHF and microwave gear in a few vehicles over the years, and they wreak havoc with cruise control systems, mostly disengaging them.

73 de KG5JJ

Charles

This isn't an easy problem to fix....because of the numerous varying factors involved, many of which could affect the throttle. There's no smoking gun anybody can point at....not yet anyway.

I've been listening to the radio talk shows about this issue.....one guy who didn't crash said he was driving along and his Corolla started accelerating. He was well aware of the throttle issue, so he pulled up on the pedal with his foot. Nothing happened. He then shifted to neutral and braked....the engine speeded up somewhat.....so he revved the throttle a few times, and after a few seconds the engine dropped back to an idle. He went on to say this was the third time for this to happen to him.

I'd bet the problem is much more common than we've been led to believe.

Here's my fix...are you listening Totota? Replace the throttle pedal and the throttle body with a standard cable type....along with any other needed pieces (like the cruise actuator). Write a new ECU program to compensate for the changes. You could do that for maybe $400-500 per car, I'd guess. Cost too much you say? Wait till the lawyers get involved here, if you want to see some real costs.......did I hear Chapter 11?

Oh...you want to blame somebody? Blame A. Gore and his emission Nazis.....for a long while many autos have had a delay mechanism built into the throttle (even the cable types) to prevent the throttle from snapping shut when you quickly let off the gas. This was another method to supposedly reduce emissions.....sounded good at the time, but not so good right now.

Let's not forget about the brake problem with the new Prius as well and those are all made in Japan, I think. We will probably see another recall that will add salt to the wound in the near future. I think it's a bit of wishful thinking bluefront that Toyota will go bankrupt, but I do think they will take a big hit here in the states that will take them years to recover from.

I think this is blown way out of proportion. A lot of people are claiming Toyota is doomed to declare bankruptcy etc. But uhhh... almost every major manufacturer has been through this in one form or another. First it was Ford, then it was GM, then it was Volkswagen, and now it's Toyota's turn. And you know what? All of these companies still exist today. Anyone who thinks that a single company is perfect or without problems is a complete moron.

Also, you'd think most Toyota owners would've actually said something sooner if it was that widespread of a problem. I mean how could something that serious be ignored?! As usual the media makes all this noise and fuss over nothing. Well not nothing, but not exactly a catastrophic issue either. To put it differently, I don't think you're guaranteed to automatically slam through a building or drive into some lake if you were to drive one right now.

Oh...you want to blame somebody? Blame A. Gore and his emission Nazis.....for a long while many autos have had a delay mechanism built into the throttle (even the cable types) to prevent the throttle from snapping shut when you quickly let off the gas. This was another method to supposedly reduce emissions.....sounded good at the time, but not so good right now.

We all knew you would eventually twist this around and pass the blame onto someone in the political realm, no less a Democrat. We just weren't sure how many of your rambling and often nonsensical posts it would take. Now we have the answer, thanks! [thumb]

I think this is blown way out of proportion. A lot of people are claiming Toyota is doomed to declare bankruptcy etc. But uhhh... almost every major manufacturer has been through this in one form or another. First it was Ford, then it was GM, then it was Volkswagen, and now it's Toyota's turn. And you know what? All of these companies still exist today. Anyone who thinks that a single company is perfect or without problems is a complete moron.

Also, you'd think most Toyota owners would've actually said something sooner if it was that widespread of a problem. I mean how could something that serious be ignored?! As usual the media makes all this noise and fuss over nothing. Well not nothing, but not exactly a catastrophic issue either. To put it differently, I don't think you're guaranteed to automatically slam through a building or drive into some lake if you were to drive one right now.


Well stated and you get rep for displaying some common sense.

I'm glad someone brought up airplanes. There is a REASON they should stay there.

How many of you guys check your tire pressure every time before you go drive? I'm betting that number is less than 1% of the user base here. I don't do it, even though we all should.

Guess what happens before an airplane takes off, especially a military one? Every square inch of the plane is checked and tested.

Also, you have to consider the difference in materials grade. Aircraft are made with special grade parts and materials where cars are wired up using pot metal and also operate in harsher conditions very often. I don't know whose bright idea it was to do all this stuff but they should have horrible things done to them.

Vehicle testing and aircraft testing go hand in hand a lot more than people actually think. Both are tested hundreds or thousands of hours at extreme temperatures(heat and cold soaks),different road conditions,different weights,etc.to test systems and construction materials to see how well they'll hold up in real world use. Both cars and aircraft use a considerable amount of aluminum and alloys(albeit different grades)but in recent years composites,fiberglass and electronics have been making inroads to making both cars and aircraft lighter,smarter and more fuel efficient.

...you'd think most Toyota owners would've actually said something sooner if it was that widespread of a problem. I mean how could something that serious be ignored?! As usual the media makes all this noise and fuss over nothing. Well not nothing, but not exactly a catastrophic issue either.

Maybe they have been saying something and they got a brick wall when dealing with Toyota. I wouldn't call people getting killed "nothing" either.

^steve sounds like a douche to me... he "co-founded" apple and he drives a prius...

and like you said, he probably hit the pedal a bunch of times or held it for a while then let it go... either way resulting in a continued accelleration in cruise control without pressure applied to the break....

Seriously? Wozniak practically invented the concept of the modern personal computer and you think he's a douche. And why did you put "co-founded" in quotes as though his contribution to the company was not important? Without him that company wouldn't have existed, Jobs had the ideas but Wozniak was the one who actually came up with a product to sell to people. This isn't his first automobile, are you trying to suggest someone who's been driving for decades (and has driven the previous 2 generations of Prius) doesn't know how to use cruise control?

And BTW you spell it brake not "break" when you are referring to those things that stop the car.

I think this is blown way out of proportion...

Also, you'd think most Toyota owners would've actually said something sooner if it was that widespread of a problem. I mean how could something that serious be ignored?! As usual the media makes all this noise and fuss over nothing. Well not nothing, but not exactly a catastrophic issue either. To put it differently, I don't think you're guaranteed to automatically slam through a building or drive into some lake if you were to drive one right now.

Sooner? How much sooner? How about immediately after purchasing a new 07 Camry (December '06) with only 14 miles on the odometer. This is certainly NOT a "worn part" accelerator pedal issue. I had to bring in our Brand New car numerous times to Toyota for this acceleration issue and other issues, such as it simply slowing down to about 5 mph by itself and slipping out of gear just driving down the raod. It didn't matter how much, or even if you pushed the gas pedal. It just would occur out of the blue like a demon took control pushing the RPM up to 4500 to 5500 RPM..

I did file a complaint with the NHTSA in March of 2007 over this and other issues. Toyota at the time called it surging instead of unintended acceleration, so that's how it was described. You can read my complaint by typing in the ODI number: 10186112
here : http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/index.cfm

Also, you can simply type in 07 Camry to see all the different complaints back then on this one model. This was widely known at the time. And, many times while I was waiting in the Toyota dealers wait room for a diagnosis, other owners of Camrys and different Toyota models would come in with identical problems. They've known about this problem for at least two years. They kept trying to say it was my driving that did it, or that the Camry needed to learn my driving, and the surging was normal for cars with drive-by-wire. Just get used to it.

We got rid of that dangerous car at a huge loss after owning it for only three months.

I hate to say this,but based on the evidence,it looks like Toyota has known for quite some time about these defects and up until now tried to "sidestep" the issue. Mitsubishi tried to hide defects on their vehicles for DECADES and look what happened to them!

Food for thought.

No company is perfect, but Toyota prided itself on having unparalleled quality controls and standards. They consistanly outperformed the other car companies in quality surveys for years, decades really. Also, while it was bound to happen sooner or later, it was of their own doing. They decided to overtake GM and pushed for quantity instead of quality that's why they sidestepped this problem early on because just like now, they knew it would hurt sales. So, they put themselves in this position by setting such a high bar so that when a major recall did happen they were set to take a very hard fall.

I hate to say this,but based on the evidence,it looks like Toyota has known for quite some time about these defects and up until now tried to "sidestep" the issue. Mitsubishi tried to hide defects on their vehicles for DECADES and look what happened to them!

Food for thought.

Mitsubishi's problems were as much about corruption within the corporate offices back home than issues with their products. Lets face it, they've never had very compelling mainstream products (as compared to Toyota) and you can't possibly blame their record here in the US on anything but lack of good, viable products for the marketplace. A car company can't survive on a single car line (Eclipse) sales.

Transportation Secretary says to stop driving recalled Toyotas.

http://wcbstv.com/local/stop.driving.toyotas.2.1467177.html

^^^^^This whole thing would be funny...if people weren't dying. A few hours after making that statement, our brilliant Transportation Secretary reversed his position. What's next? [hihi] It's 12:30 now.....wonder what'll be going on by this evening?

They've known about this problem for at least two years. They kept trying to say it was my driving that did it, or that the Camry needed to learn my driving, and the surging was normal for cars with drive-by-wire. Just get used to it.

We got rid of that dangerous car at a huge loss after owning it for only three months.

Wait a minute.. this sounds familiar. We were told that in 04 when my mom bought a Camry V6.
My uncle drove it one time when he was visiting from California and said the response in the car was terrible for a V6.
We just thought it "learned" the way my mom drove like a granny and optimized for that and thought nothing more

Seriously? Wozniak practically invented the concept of the modern personal computer and you think he's a douche. And why did you put "co-founded" in quotes as though his contribution to the company was not important? Without him that company wouldn't have existed, Jobs had the ideas but Wozniak was the one who actually came up with a product to sell to people. This isn't his first automobile, are you trying to suggest someone who's been driving for decades (and has driven the previous 2 generations of Prius) doesn't know how to use cruise control?

And BTW you spell it brake not "break" when you are referring to those things that stop the car.

don't know why i put quotation marks.... but it doesn't matter, i didn't even know who this guy was until someone posted his little "experiment" or whatever the hell he was doing... but way to be a nice little fanboy and defend his honor......

oh, and i apologize for mis-stroking my keys, sorry your dickishness came out, but i know what a brake is.... thanks anyway.[cheers]

^^^^^This whole thing would be funny...if people weren't dying. A few hours after making that statement, our brilliant Transportation Secretary reversed his position. What's next? [hihi] It's 12:30 now.....wonder what'll be going on by this evening?LOL, yeah I couldn't believe he said that, but you know he had no choice, but to reverse himself. The first statement these officals make is usually what they intended to say, but at the same time it would be irresponsible to cause a panic because the fact is that many people rely on their car for transportation to work and such. Look at it this way, him reversing himself probably saved a few jobs. Try telling your boss that you won't be coming to work because the government told you to stop driving your car [hihi].

I heard Ray LaHood falling apart on the news on this subject while I was working in a customer's home this morning. Man that guy was coming unglued when people kept hammering him on the point, all I could do was laugh and thank the good Lord I don't own a Toyota.

theheat, I don't even know what to say if you don't know who Wozniak is. You along with other people on the ABC news site seem to think his experience should be marginalized simply by the fact that you've never heard of him. He is a brilliant person, regardless of whether you like or care about Apple computers.

The point is, there is a happy medium here.....somewhere between the simplicity of a Model A, and the complication of a 747. IMO...we've passed the medium point a few years back.

I like to think my '06 Focus sits right on the sweet spot.....no fly-by-wire, no ABS, no electric seats.... no other such nonsense. I do enjoy the power brakes, auto-trans, power steering and power windows. There are a lot of people here who go for even more simplicity than my car. My complaint.....a few more MPGs would be nice.

But in a few years you won't be able to buy a "simple" car at all.....much less work on it. And these fly-by-wire sort of problems will become the norm.....

I agree with all you say. That's why I'll never sell the Spitfire. No power brakes, no power steering, carburated engine. Even if a EMP bomb went off I'd still be able to drive the car!

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t86/powershots70/IMG_1936.jpg

I agree with all you say. That's why I'll never sell the Spitfire. No power brakes, no power steering, carburated engine. Even if a EMP bomb went off I'd still be able to drive the car!

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t86/powershots70/IMG_1936.jpg



Driving a Spitfire was always a seat of the pants fun sort of experience. Just don't take it out in the winter, those things rusted with a spectacular velocity.

Mitsubishi's problems were as much about corruption within the corporate offices back home than issues with their products. Lets face it, they've never had very compelling mainstream products (as compared to Toyota) and you can't possibly blame their record here in the US on anything but lack of good, viable products for the marketplace. A car company can't survive on a single car line (Eclipse) sales.

25-30 something odd years ago Eclipse didn't exist-yet. Back then Mitsu's popular products consisted of the Mirage,Cordia/Tredia,Starion,Mighty Max ,Galant/Sigma and their minivans. Their main forte at the time was turbocharging most of their products and also building/importing them for Chrysler Corp. for sale as Dodge/Plymouth products. The fact that they tried to HIDE the defects literally under lock and key is what brought their current situation to a head. When you right,no one remembers but when you do wrong no one ever forgets holds true in their case.

25-30 something odd years ago Eclipse didn't exist-yet. Back then Mitsu's popular products consisted of the Mirage,Cordia/Tredia,Starion,Mighty Max ,Galant/Sigma and their minivans. Their main forte at the time was turbocharging most of their products and also building/importing them for Chrysler Corp. for sale as Dodge/Plymouth products. The fact that they tried to HIDE the defects literally under lock and key is what brought their current situation to a head. When you right,no one remembers but when you do wrong no one ever forgets holds true in their case.

I'm well aware the Eclipse didn't exist 25 yrs ago. I'm also well aware of what Mitsubishi's product line has been over the years, since I have also sold such products. Cover ups, flat out immoral behavior by their Japanese execs, etc. don't change the fact they have always had a mediocre product as compared to the other Asian manufacturers. They also went on a spree in the early to mid 90's of granting dealerships to pretty much anyone with a pulse. They were throwing stores up wherever, without any regard for the market itself. Then they decided giving out loans with no payments for 12 months would be a brilliant idea, and when about 40% of those same loans were in default within 24 months, it damn near forced them out of the US market.

Good product sells, as Ford's recent climb has proven. Mitsubishi hasn't ever had really good product.

I'm well aware the Eclipse didn't exist 25 yrs ago.
Then why bother bringing it up?

Then why bother bringing it up?

Because Toyota's problems are TODAY and I was talking about Mitsubishi's position in the marketplace TODAY, too.

Honda had some horrible and I do mean horrible scandals in the mid 80s to late 90s. Several Exec's and dealer's got prison time, but that didn't exactly alter their place in the market, did it ? No, because they generally had very good and viable products for the marketplace, something that Mitsubishi unfortunately didn't/doesn't.

Sorry to the OP for veering off topic.

Good product sells, as Ford's recent climb has proven. Mitsubishi hasn't ever had really good product.

Mirage Turbo,Galant VR-4,Starion anyone?And lately Mitsu has been focusing on the Lancer and Outlander.

Mirage Turbo,Galant VR-4,Starion anyone?

Don't forget I also said viable for the marketplace

Go back in time, see what other products were on the market the same time those vehicles you mentioned were, and then honestly ask yourself if they were the best products for the time ?

Not sure why you seem to be looking to get into some pissing match, but I'm not going to play along.

^^^^^This whole thing would be funny...if people weren't dying. A few hours after making that statement, our brilliant Transportation Secretary reversed his position. What's next? [hihi] It's 12:30 now.....wonder what'll be going on by this evening?We'll it's evening here now & toyota has new issues with the 2010 prius's ABS. [nutkick]

Don't forget I also said viable for the marketplace

Go back in time, see what other products were on the market the same time those vehicles you mentioned were, and then honestly ask yourself if they were the best products for the time ?

Not sure why you seem to be looking to get into some pissing match, but I'm not going to play along.

Lets see: Dodge Daytona,Nissan 300 ZX,Dodge Omni GLH/GLH-S.Dodge Shadow,Saab 900,Dodge Lancer,Dodge Colt,Pontiac Sunbird,Ford Escort-all of which were available n/a or f/i at the time. And at that time,some of these vehicles were the best and viable(before SUVs and trucks took center stage).

You asked and I answered.

boy when the poo hits the fan it really goes everywhere doesnt it.. [xx(][poke]

I'll bite on the Mitsubishi thing a little... ever notice it's pretty uncommon to see a Mitsubishi older than about 10 years old on the road? Could be because they make crappy product, could be because they tend to attract a buyer who does not take care of the car, maybe a combination of the two. I've seen a surprising number of recent (built in this century) Mitsubishi cars/trucks with faded or peeling paint too. Most other manufacturers left that behind back in the 1990s.

I'll bite on the Mitsubishi thing a little... ever notice it's pretty uncommon to see a Mitsubishi older than about 10 years old on the road? Could be because they make crappy product, could be because they tend to attract a buyer who does not take care of the car, maybe a combination of the two. I've seen a surprising number of recent (built in this century) Mitsubishi cars/trucks with faded or peeling paint too. Most other manufacturers left that behind back in the 1990s.

But that could be said for a lot of manufacturers as well. I seem to remember a recall a couple years back involving Mazda 6/Ford Fusions because of premature corrosion issues.

I actually get a lot of mistubishits in the shop........all due to neglect of their vehicles though.

I dunno if this has already been said but I just saw earlier today that the prius is also having "momentary loss of braking." I'd sure hate to get one that had the stuck accelerator and brake failure.

OH and buy toyota stock when it drops to $1 a share... I failed to do this with ford and it made me sad.

I actually get a lot of mistubishits in the shop........all due to neglect of their vehicles though.

I dunno if this has already been said but I just saw earlier today that the prius is also having "momentary loss of braking." I'd sure hate to get one that had the stuck accelerator and brake failure.

OH and buy toyota stock when it drops to $1 a share... I failed to do this with ford and it made me sad.

agreed.

that's a heck of a lot to drop to 1 man.. they're at like $70 something.. Gotta be at like the brink of bankruptcy for that.

When Ford plopped down to 1 they were around like $10ish and fears of bankruptcy

It's getting worse and worse....practically every talk-show is alive with more Toyota horror stories. The politicians are getting involved beating on Toyota. The local Toyota dealers have stopped advertising .....haven't heard an ad in a week or so.

Really if Toyota survives this one, they'll be lucky. From first place to the bottom, for the sake of a throttle cable.......[:(!]

They need a hurricane or another big disaster to get people talking about something else. They'll have a 2-day respite with Super Bowl week-end, but on Monday it'll all start again.

now I wouldn't say they'll go to bottom.. maybe mid pack if anywhere

The US car companies survived years and years of rank incompetence before this recession (which was obviously coming if you had half a brain), forced the government to bail them out.

I think Toyota will weather this. Its been a slow news week for the media so they are milking it for all they can.

Worst case the Japanese government will step in with a bail out. But I seriously doubt it will get that bad.

This is quite a bit different from just general incompetence, poor quality control, ugly cars, etc........we've got lawyers drooling over massive law-suits, in a time when nobody it seems, can hide anything. Combine that with a poor economy where car sales are way down anyway, and super-tight credit....not to mention the fact Toyota is perceived as a "foreign" company by the US general public and you have a critical problem, even for a monster company.

I won't be buying Toyota stock......sad time for US Toyota employees. [paranoid]

all the dealerships around here are open 24 hours now.

Toyota wont fail because of their current mess of several recalls. I think what will happen is that their sales will slow for awhile, stock prices will go way down, and this will hang over their heads for a looooong time. They make reliable cars, no doubt about it, but the problem is that theyre getting worse and theyre all UGLY as sin. Id rather watch paint dry than wander into a Toyota showroom. After they killed the Celica GT-S, the MR-S Spyder, Supra, etc, they just havent made a daggone thing that is remotely exciting. And no, stupid Scions just wont cut it!!!!

the scion sedan isnt bad, but i think it is only a coupe. need 4 doors. i agree that the toyota lineup is just too bland. nothing exciting, like the sporty little cars, such as the sentra se-r spec v, or the mazda3 gt, the focus ST, etc. just something more fun.

Well the service departments will be busy for a long time......but realize the local Toyota dealer makes very little profit from Toyota, doing warranty repairs.

So what's happening.....real service work (which is profitable), will be pushed aside while this important recall is being performed.

And.....the Toyota sales departments are ghost-towns. And that's where all the dealers make their "real" money. And who's paying the floor-plan interest on all those cars that can't be sold? The poor dealer of course...bad stuff going on. Glad I'm out of the business.....I went through a bunch of stupid recall issues working for Nissan. Nothing like this though.

have you seen the new commercials?
'the latest toyotas, and they are all "quality assured"

you know things are bad when toyota needs to put that in there.

i mean, even a month ago, they had commercials on how 'the little things' never fail on the cars, etc.

Well this isn't a little thing, so that part is true [hihi]

then there is the one with the guy at the car wash, and the kid in the back wants the best...b/c it will last so long, it may end up being his.

sigh.

eh I suppose it was Toyota's time to follow the trend.... if you look at it, most of the companies have been so close to quitting a few times and magically popped back up.

Well...the wash will be over before it really gets going!

Would make a good spoof of the commercial; making a big deal with the primo wash, slowly entering, lining-up, rear of the car disappears, then two seconds later, comes zingin' out the exit at 80 mph!

Serious business, that...

Charles

^^^[rofl] OMG I can picture that now and it actually hits like an imaginary bump so it literally comes flying out of the car wash! [rofl]

Well...the wash will be over before it really gets going!

Would make a good spoof of the commercial; making a big deal with the primo wash, slowly entering, lining-up, rear of the car disappears, then two seconds later, comes zingin' out the exit at 80 mph!

Serious business, that...

Charles

lol, that would be kinda funny.....tag line is 'has this happened to you?...then call the law offices of....and we will help you sue the [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]* out of Toyota!'

^ i would drive that toyota.... 0-80 in 2 seconds.... wowza!!!!

We appraised 3 Toyotas yesterday - 2 Camrys and 1 Prius, even though the Prius wasn't part of the recall. The universal comment from the owners was "I don't want this car anymore. How much of a hit am I going to take?"

They all typically hold their value pretty well, but most of our wholesalers are saying that in our area, they're pulling upwards of 1-2K back of "rough book" at auction. These people clearly have been shopping around, because none of our figures seemed to surprise them at all. Frankly we don't want them either. It could be 60-90 days before we see parts for repair and we want to turn cars much quicker than that.

Apparently Toyota is shortly going to issue a recall on the 2010 Prius (Link (http://www.pedaltothemetal.com/index.php/news_story/will_the_recalls_ever_stop_the_prius_wont.html)). This is after attempting to sort-of sneak the repair past the public eyes. The fix is purely soft-ware related.....I suppose involving the ABS system.

They first issued a "voluntary service campaign" (recall).....meaning you could get it fixed if you wanted, which gives the impression the problem is not too serious. This sort of recall is mostly ignored by the public.

It seems they were trying to do the same thing with the accelerator issues....didn't work out like they planned. I'll bet the US government now gets even more heavily involved with all aspects of the auto industry.....claiming "safety" concerns. The problem here....some tougher controls seem to be needed, but everything the government touches usually gets screwed up.....and ends up making things worse for the consumer, rather than better. Damn you Toyota. My 2c.....

Another link to this latest recall (http://consumerist.com/2010/02/report-toyota-will-recall-prius.html)

All I can say is:


Toyota: moving foward
(even when you dont want to)

Apparently Toyota is shortly going to issue a recall on the 2010 Prius (Link (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pedaltothemetal.com%2Findex.php%2Fnews_story%2Fwill_the_recalls_ever_stop_the_prius_wont.html)). This is after attempting to sort-of sneak the repair past the public eyes. The fix is purely soft-ware related.....I suppose involving the ABS system.

They first issued a "voluntary service campaign" (recall).....meaning you could get it fixed if you wanted, which gives the impression the problem is not too serious. This sort of recall is mostly ignored by the public.

It seems they were trying to do the same thing with the accelerator issues....didn't work out like they planned. I'll bet the US government now gets even more heavily involved with all aspects of the auto industry.....claiming "safety" concerns. The problem here....some tougher controls seem to be needed, but everything the government touches usually gets screwed up.....and ends up making things worse for the consumer, rather than better. Damn you Toyota. My 2c.....

Another link to this latest recall (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fconsumerist.com%2F2010%2F02%2Freport-toyota-will-recall-prius.html)
damn...ANOTHER recall??

Don't blink just yet... now they're looking into (http://jalopnik.com/5467778/beige-continues-to-bite-back-nhtsa-fielding-toyota-corolla-steering-complaints) reports of some Corolla steering issues.

[confused]

damn this really sucks for you toyota guys........ in all honesty though I think just stick with it and they'll be able to make it right.

damn. when it rains.....

^^ it pours.. And in Toyota's case-it's friggin MONSOON SEASON!!!

I'm losing track here.....a leaky brake fluid recall, and another steering issue recall (I think).

What you'll start seeing next.....suicides among top Totota managers/directors/other personnel. They do that you know.....

Got any Toyota stock......sorry.

I'm losing track here.....a leaky brake fluid recall, and another steering issue recall (I think).

What you'll start seeing next.....suicides among top Totota managers/directors/other personnel. They do that you know.....


Seppuku or hari-kiri I think.

out of control. i cannot believe this. toyota has been a std of reliability.

Seriously. Toyota is going into full on meltdown mode right now. And Honda is expanding one of their recalls, too. Maybe they figured just get it all out in the open now and get it over with??

im thinking that hyundai and kia will use this time to really grab hold of the market here.

^^ That is a given. Strike while the iron is hot!!

The Nissan dealership here in there ad says -1000 off with trade in of Toyota

ford now has commercials out stating 'you need quality you can trust...we have higher quality stds than toyota....'

ford now has commercials out stating 'you need quality you can trust...we have higher quality stds than toyota....'

I hope Ford doesn't have to retract the above. Just when you kick someone when they're down, things happen to make the accuser(s) eat their words.

I'm hoping they test their new global offerings well, or the "basking in the glory" may turn into burying their heads in the sand.

Charles

yep. just like toyota always harped on its reliability.

Things are definitely falling apart for Toyota.....now we have ex-Toyota insiders coming forward with very disturbing allegations. How all this works out will take a long time and many lawyers. With all the Toyota dealers around the country suffering financially like everyone else, I can see a bunch of new empty car lots springing up......

The only possible good side.....you're likely to see a big bunch of cheap new cars (and used cars) for sale. But who would want one? (crashing sounds)

these cars are safe for one thing. demo derbys.

Now what?!?!?!?!

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/11/prius.cruise.control/index.html?hpt=T2

Ouch, Toyota. Very ouch.

^^ Haha, those Priuses have been accelerating to such insane speeds as 75 mph! Oh no, watch out traffic, a Prius is moving at the same speed as you instead of 20 mph slower than you!

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/US/02/11/prius.cruise.control/t1larg.prius.photo.ireport.jpg

this story is flawed... look at the people in the picture... whats wrong?

They are old!!!! and probably trying to slow down more and hit the accelerator by accident

this here is gold:

The Toyota Prius sometimes accelerates while in cruise control, rocketing past the set speed and sending drivers on wild rides, according to some owners and auto safety experts.[rofl]

yup, one person i know is trading their toyota in today!

This last CNN video link is disturbing.....all along I assumed you could just shift to neutral, and brake. But one guy who had the acceleration issue said the shift lever wouldn't move, when this was happening. Then there's the cruise issue, with the acceleration starting when you hit resume. And it's not like a few soccer moms are having problems.....some of these incidents happened to people very car-savvy.

The Prius in particular would be almost impossible to diagnose.....what with the number of different computer systems interacting. What a nightmare.......

That one video is funny....a mechanic in a blue shirt under the car looking upward. Like what is he looking for....?

This last CNN video link is disturbing.....all along I assumed you could just shift to neutral, and brake. But one guy who had the acceleration issue said the shift lever wouldn't move, when this was happening. Then there's the cruise issue, with the acceleration starting when you hit resume. And it's not like a few soccer moms are having problems.....some of these incidents happened to people very car-savvy.

The Prius in particular would be almost impossible to diagnose.....what with the number of different computer systems interacting. What a nightmare.......

That one video is funny....a mechanic in a blue shirt under the car looking upward. Like what is he looking for....?

very true

The Nissan dealership here in there ad says -1000 off with trade in of Toyota

Portsmouth Ford in New Hampshire is offering $1000 trade-in assistance to anyone who owns a 1995 or newer Toyota,Honda,Lexus,Scion or Acura!!

http://www.portsmouthford.com/home.htm

No scruples there!![thumb]lol

Now there's a recall on 2010 Tacomas for the driveshaft... a paltry 8,000 vehicles compared to the massive recalls of all the other cars.

Recalls happen all the time, for all manufacturers. But this is really getting ridiculous for Toyota.

It may be paltry but it's also 8,000 potential LAWSUITS!!!

I've seen what happens to some vehicles when a driveshaft lets go!!

wow, that tacoma thing must be BAD tho...they do not do recalls until the potential loss from lawsuits gets higher than what they would pay out to insurance for accidents/loss.

I feel for the owners of these Toyota's but I can't think of a company that deserves all this crap more than Toyota does. They are a bunch of arrogant, pompous stuck up pricks! The roosters are now coming home to roost! I'm thrilled with all the negative media that Toyota is getting right now. This is great!!!

I owned a new 1994 Toyota compact pick up (before it was called Tacoma) made in Japan and it had a multitude of problems and Toyota eventually had to buy it back from me. I had to go through a Better Business Bureau-Autoline arbitration hearing in order for this to occur. Within 5 days of the hearing I got a letter from the BBB stating that Toyota had to buy the vehicle back from me including all payments made. I was so elated. After that I went and bought myself a brand new 1995 Ranger. The struggles I went through with the various Toyota dealership service depts. My experience with them was a complete joke. Honda is another arrogant outfit. Every Honda dealer service dept I've ever dealt with is either incompetent or incompetent and arrogant. They just think their product is the greatest thing in the world. If they only knew.

Hail to the Ford Focus!

Portsmouth Ford in New Hampshire is offering $1000 trade-in assistance to anyone who owns a 1995 or newer Toyota,Honda,Lexus,Scion or Acura!!

http://www.portsmouthford.com/home.htm

No scruples there!![thumb]lol

Actually, this is a national program. I just received the same $1,000 incentive when I traded in my Toyota Yaris on an SE sedan 5 speed.. This was on top of $2500 in rebates and a $900 discount on the car. It brought the price down from an MSRP of a little over $19,000 to around $14,600.

http://theparson.net/FocusWeb.jpg

^^ anyone else notice his split 8 spoke wheels have a machined finish?

HEY.....I heard Toyota has a new model coming out, hopefully without any defects. But there's a problem already......It's ?

I'll be....it's so bad I can't post a link to it.

Ok here it is.....This Toyota is FOR ADULTS ONLY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k14clTVtkVA). And since I found it on U-tube, it should be suitable for a general audience (you'd think anyway).

^^ anyone else notice his split 8 spoke wheels have a machined finish?

what the.. i want that [:(]

Part of the appearance package.

Actually, this is a national program. I just received the same $1,000 incentive when I traded in my Toyota Yaris on an SE sedan 5 speed.. This was on top of $2500 in rebates and a $900 discount on the car. It brought the price down from an MSRP of a little over $19,000 to around $14,600.

http://theparson.net/FocusWeb.jpg


Congratulations...you made a very wise choice! Great looking Focus! Looks like you got the SE Appearance Package (upgraded alloy wheels and rear spoiler). Hope you get many, many happy years of motoring from your Focus!

Actually, this is a national program. I just received the same $1,000 incentive when I traded in my Toyota Yaris on an SE sedan 5 speed.. This was on top of $2500 in rebates and a $900 discount on the car. It brought the price down from an MSRP of a little over $19,000 to around $14,600.

http://theparson.net/FocusWeb.jpg

Not all of the Ford dealers are doing this program though-not here in New England anyway.

did anyone else notace that this happened right after america took over toyota? american car companys are slackin yett again.. :/