I may be getting a s2000 engine and tranny soon and was wondering if it would work in my 03 zx3, im tired of being restricted to 170whp, i want to go fast!!! and no i dont have 170whp but thats about all we can squeeze out of our cars without extensive mods and then it wouldnt even be fun to drive it would be cammin so hard

ummmm... FAIL

[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)] that s#it

put it in a dam honda if you "want to go fast"

yeah sure it will work...

but by the time you get it to work, and all the money you would spend it to make it work, you could have built one hell of a turbo motor.

dude its just not worth it

ummmm... Fail

[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)] that s#it

put it in a dam honda if you "want to go fast"
A little harsh, but the sediment is x2 for me

yeah sure it will work...

But by the time you get it to work, and all the money you would spend it to make it work, you could have built one hell of a turbo motor.

Dude its just not worth it
x2...

ehh, if you wanna do it do it. if i did a swap into a car itd be a bigger motor though, probly a v6 or v8. but im all abotu being different. so if you like the idea, have the money and time. go for it

I'd agree. A V8 swap would be worth your time more than a motor out of an S2K.

To put this in perspective...

You work at Microsoft... on a Mac.
You own a Super Nintendo in the 90s... and you are playing Sonic the Hedgehog.
You are cheating on your wife... with a man.

I may be getting a s2000 engine and tranny soon and was wondering if it would work in my 03 zx3, im tired of being restricted to 170whp, i want to go fast!!! and no i dont have 170whp but thats about all we can squeeze out of our cars without extensive mods and then it wouldnt even be fun to drive it would be cammin so hard

go ahead and do it....... be original!

honestly if you have the resources and know how to do it...do it...

you obviously will get grief for it now, but at the final product you will get droolers
i mean a RWD 9K revving engine will most certainly make me drool

If u were in florida here. I could can get that done for u. I have a friend with a shop. He does very good fabrication work too

Duratec RWD conversion. Similiar performance, electrically far greater harmony, and you could perform the entire swap with a built 275 HP NA Duratec for justt the cost of a used S2K engine/trans.

Karl you have me thinking now.

Why not add a turbo to what you have 240/250HP 250/260TQ and be done with it for less work and money then all of the above

Tom

Or a focus that has a honda powerd turbo engine!

Karl you have me thinking now.

And I've got 2.3 Duratecs, T-5's and 8.8's littered about the shop too. And, ohh... 5 Focus' I'm not driving right now...

[bash]

why don't you just turbo charge it?

less money overall and less labor.

Sometimes its about the journey not the destination.

Well i knew i was going to get bashed on by the haters, but to the guys andgals that said be original, well those are the real car guys. haveing said that, i think its going to be bad ass, and i think im going to do it....go tto get a shoping list from my honda friends of all the little things im going to need.

i love my focus....its just alittle slow kinda like the haters [hah]

I'm not a hater, I just don't agree with you because it just goes against my grain to put a rice motor in a cool American car. That said, I wish you the best of luck, and I understand the feeling of not wanting a good motor go to waste.

honda isnt rice in its stock state. rice is what people do to it.

And they said racism was dead.

Well i knew i was going to get bashed on by the haters, but to the guys andgals that said be original, well those are the real car guys. haveing said that, i think its going to be bad ass, and i think im going to do it....got to get a shoping list from my honda friends of all the little things im going to need.

i love my focus....its just alittle slow kinda like the haters [hah]


I'm guessing they'll say the same things we will [bash]

KPro for management.
Mounts will have to be custom made don't even bother looking for bolt in.
Drive shaft will have to be custom length. You'll have to measure to fit.
For the rear suspension, look for a Jag X-Type rear sub. It should be accommodating enough for IRS.

All I can think of off the top of my head.

has anyone actually used the jag rear in a Focus?

I may be getting a s2000 engine and tranny soon and was wondering if it would work in my 03 zx3, im tired of being restricted to 170whp, i want to go fast!!! and no i dont have 170whp but thats about all we can squeeze out of our cars without extensive mods and then it wouldnt even be fun to drive it would be cammin so hard

Its already been said, but the amount of time and money towards the s2000 motor could get you something better without all the work.

That and it seems your Honda friends are making you feel very inferior, so inferior that you have to have a honda engine to make your car 'decent' [spank]

I don't know about you, but I don't see any type of Hondas in WRC. The zetec and duratec have lots of potential.

or you could do a rwd cossie swap. Which has been done, and would spank the s2000 engine. And it would have lots of what Honda engines don't have, TORQUE.

At least if you do the swap, your friends can tell you to pop VTEC... in a Ford. [nono]

Oh, and I forgot to put this. Our cars weren't designed to go fast... in a straight line. Handling is where the Focus shines.

When you stop racing in a straight line is when you start winning.

I think it would be cool. People that are bashing should go home lie under the covers and wait for the end of the world.

i dont think so lol. this thread = FAIL. i personally dont like the idea of somebody wasting their time by sticking any honda motor into a focus. hey, if you have the kind of time and money to just throw at this for [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]s and giggles then go for it. honestly it would be pretty cool to see and would definately be interesting to drive. but theres just too much work and money involved for a shoddy end result power wise. you could spend that money to stuff a 351W in there instead and be much happier and further ahead. or you could just not do the RWD and simply turbo and build what you have and be looking at 500whp in a focus and telling all your honda friends they need to learn how to keep up

Everyone has their own wants and desires. Not everyone thinks a 351w is the best engine. Maybe he wants to be unique and not go with what everyone else tells him to do. I will say I agree that maybe stick to the stock motor and build it and turbo that because it would be more cost effective, but I still think that this would be a cool project to be followed none the less and if you dont like it you dont have to follow it.

And they said racism was dead.

Being pro USA, including cars, is racist?? Last check a Honda is foreign and a Focus is... ahh forget it, it's not worth the argument.

if you want to get technical it was actually prejudice which racism is a form of.

has anyone actually used the jag rear in a Focus?


I think so. I'd have to do some serious digging but I swear someone used it
for a swap back around '03-'04, er maybe earlier. I'll see what I can find and post back.

Being pro USA, including cars, is racist?? Last check a Honda is foreign and a Focus is... ahh forget it, it's not worth the argument.

Foreign is the word you're looking for.
Where did the Focus originate from?
A: Europe, i.e. not domestic
Where is the Focus made?
A: Mexico (for the most part, older ones)

Yes Ford has a US headquarters and started in the US. But they are a publicly owned company and have headquarters in various locations around the world along with various other design, R&D facilities and such.
The domestic vs import debate is moot now days in this world economy of the automobile.

Foreign is the word you're looking for...

Where is the Focus made?
A: Mexico (for the most part, older ones)

Not mine...

if you want to get technical it was actually prejudice which racism is a form of.
Nationalistic is the word I prefer. Get a grip, we are all prejudiced towards something.

Sounds like a fun project. Don't kid yourself though...it's a lot of work, and you'll need to buy a lot more than you think to make it run well. Know how to fabricate before you start...every little bracket will be custom. You either make them yourself for the cost of time, or you pay someone big $ to make them.

A good motor is a good motor, no matter what the country of origin. I'm pretty sure the Zetec is mostly British design (I read somewhere that Yamaha was involved?). I think a 240 hp aluminum 4 cyl would be a better choice than an iron block V8, unless you just plan to just race 1/4 mile.

or you could do a rwd cossie swap. Which has been done


In a Focus? Pics or it didn't happen.


When you stop racing in a straight line is when you start winning.

Truth.

theres a guy on fj from the uk with a rwd cossie

Has anyone here ever driven an S2000? They are balls fast stock and don't really have power issues. I realize they are smaller but shave some weight and you're in the neighborhood, with tons of aftermarket to boot. Oh and S2000s will also rape our cars in curves without even trying. lol

No. But I've seen a turbo'd one race a few times. Google "Consummate Tuning".

theres a guy on fj from the uk with a rwd cossie

I will have to look for that later [:)]

I dont drag race my focus and i got raped at memphis motersports road course by a s2000....i want a s2k but me being 6 foot 5 i dont really fit, and when i ride in my friends i have to have the top down and look over the window, no fun in the rain and or cold!!!

on a side note i want to keep my focus i just think a base 200hp plus power plant is a better start than the 110 hp base

im an expert welder and ase cert. and my friend owns a machiene shop so were good there ill just have to get all the wireing diagrams and what not for the electrical aspect of it.

as for the v8 guys i dont want a 351 or a 5.0 in my focus thats not original anymore and personaly i dont care if bin laden himself builds this moter ill still put it in my car cause its a damn good moter!!!

so a 2.0 w/ 240/151 lbs is what you'd spend thousands for. Maybe if you stole a wrecked s2000 and knew how to fabricate why not. But whats with everyone wanting some of the most underwhelming/expensive/time consuming builds. If you want to be different then go out and sport an inverted mohawk.

Eww, lamest idea ever.

time consuming

nail on the head right there. At least for me.

It really gets old hearing all these super expert ASE car/welding geniuses asking forums "will it work".

Also it's spelled m-o-t-o-r

A welding genius would know that you can put any motor in any car given enough metal and time.

...and he/she would ENJOY the time spent doing it.

Too many questions nowadays not enough action. I'll be honest my welds are messy and I only have half the credits for ase certification. I'm more or less a self-glorified shade tree mechanic. ASE training means nothing without the experience, I've met a few certified guys I wouldn't trust assembling a basketball hoop.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9756/025is.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4843/dscf00182.jpg

You wanna know something i have never seen done?

a 6bolt 4g63t in a Focus. Complete with the awd system. To me, the 4g63t is the king of japanese inline 4's.

holy balls thats what i want lol. but i think if anything is going into the fofo itll be a supercharged v6.

interesting, where'd they get a duratec with a timing belt? and horry cow thats a turbo.

I dont care if im the only one to do it i just really like the idea of using the stock ecu from a 2.3 focus. and doing all out NA build that will put my futurre stock motor turbo zetec wagon to shame.

Honestly, that would be pretty cool. Just keep in mind, anything is possible with the right amount of money

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9756/025is.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4843/dscf00182.jpg

You wanna know something i have never seen done?

a 6bolt 4g63t in a Focus. Complete with the awd system. To me, the 4g63t is the king of japanese inline 4's.

HOLY SON OF A BISCUIT EATER!!!! That would be ridiculous! I have a local mitsu tuner too. He is pushing over 560hp on his stock first gen block!

lol this is the worst forum ever close this thread mods im out peace

or you could do a rwd cossie swap. Which has been done, and would spank the s2000 engine.
In a Focus? Pics or it didn't happen.

i will take your bet for pictures and raise you one video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uf3Qt121rc

interesting, where'd they get a duratec with a timing belt? and horry cow thats a turbo.

its not d-tec its the cosworth YBT.

the sad part is that that litle rice motor has the potential to push
2x the power N/A than a focus motor.
if you decide to go that route build it up :) and consould some honda forums you can build a badass motor with that

I'm not a hater, I just don't agree with you because it just goes against my grain to put a rice motor in a cool American car. That said, I wish you the best of luck, and I understand the feeling of not wanting a good motor go to waste.

http://forums.focaljet.com/team-rigz/613689-rs-sold-new-project-go.html

Heres the cossie guy from fj.

This car is cool he's currently doing an engine rebuild.

the sad part is that that litle rice motor has the potential to push
2x the power N/A than a focus motor.
if you decide to go that route build it up :) and consould some honda forums you can build a badass motor with that

so what 4 cylinder honda motor puts out 500 hp n/a??? It's still a 4 cylinder, you won't see much more power n/a than it already has.

lol this is the worst forum ever close this thread mods im out peace


?
Why?

Haven't some of us given sound advice?
Isn't that part of why you made this thread?

You knew there'd be criticism, just something you'll have to deal with. Hell even if it does become reality you're going to get more shit from the real world than us.

I know the potential of a boosted K series and I know they are brutally tough. You just have to realize that the time and money it'd take to put one in a Focus just to be different might not be worth it, and you see that to many of us it isn't.

GO FOR IT MAN!!!! Hell, its unique. If I had the cash I would do something like that too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXibrubMbxs&NR=1


Man just do a Cammed FOCUS.


P-Power
R-REV HARD
N-NOISE/ NOS
D- Drift
2- 2 effin fast
1- IDK'


Take it to the Track Next week, Pull Wheelies, Even tho it's FWD


Video Hijacked from a Thread in general,

..... sad

personally... if you want to do a swap... i'd say keep it ford...

the zetec and duratec motors are great powerplants... very reliable and hold up under higher output levels such as boost...

i do like the 4g motors but Ive heard about some issues with crank walk which i dont care for... simular to the 2jz supra motor.... when you start pushing them hard... yes they can make all kinds of power... but crank walk becomes a big problem....

you could go with the 2.0l yota motor they run in the rally supra.... i think its been pushed over 900whp with enough boost crammed in it....

hell... any motor can make tons of power... it just depends on how deep your pockets are.... and how large of a snail you can fit under your hood... or if you feel like fabricating a new hood... the sky is the limit...

if you plan on making big power numbers... 400+whp... then I wouldnt bother building a zetec or duratec... yes it can be done but the lack of traction through all of the gears would make it pretty useless on the street unless you want to keep slicks on it....

the thing to keep in mind is... when you are looking for 300+whp out of a 2 liter engine... it pretty well requires boost and quite a bit of it... most of your average honda and mitsu/dodge engines can reach 200whp NA... sure... so can the zetec and duratec if you want to keep throwing money at it.... but most cant do 300+ without some form of forced induction and supporting modifications.... and 300whp in a focus is incredible... hell im not there yet (havnt had time to get the tune dialed in and turn the boost up..) but at 10psi with a gt30.... from a stop... tires wont hook until a good ways through 3rd and thats not dropping the clutch... thats light take off then nailing it....

either way... do what you want... unique is fun but it takes time and money... just keep it in mind while planning everything out.... having a 9k+rpm rev limit does sound fun...

good luck
-AcId-

why get an s2k motor? i beat s2k's in my svt

The replies in this thread made me LOL. So many people care what he does to his car... wut. Let him be original! If he messes up we laugh, if he beats you in a race he laughs, no big deal.

Lol that would be a funny ass race...

the zetec and duratec motors are great powerplants... very reliable and hold up under higher output levels such as boost...


hell... any motor can make tons of power... it just depends on how deep your pockets are.... and how large of a snail you can fit under your hood... or if you feel like fabricating a new hood... the sky is the limit...

This is the main reason you'd swap to a s2k motor, more options means more competitive prices, meaning poorfolk like me could afford to kick the vtak in.

Though if you can afford a focus, go buy a honda as a second car, lol.

the thing to keep in mind though is... when you get to those powerlevels... parts prices are pretty well the same... a turbo is a turbo... which ever motor you bolt it to doesnt change how much it will cost.... and you'll need boost to see those levels out of either motor... honda or otherwise.... plus the added cost of doing the full swap... and having the car down... it will cost more then you think to do it... plus most of the cheaper parts like intakes, exhaust, etc... wont work because it will all have to be custom.... more expensive parts... cams... etc... will work... so really... parts prices arnt going to differ by much.

-AcId-

a honda powered focus??? this world is def gonna end soon lol i say if u have a ford KEEP IT FORD!!!!

would make a cool project but what we have here is someone whos butthurt his day dream didnt work in logic land.

^^haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahah nice

You all do realize that Ford has been using Mazda motors for years. I just don't understand why people would think that using a Honda is wrong.

mazda is a subsidiary of ford.

honda is not.

Its the people that think honda motors are the epitome of performance that irk me.

The point being is that Mazda is Japanese, just like Honda. If the nation of origin is the reason that people are against such a swap, just realize that Ford is already in bed with a Japanese manufacturer.

Honda has competed in the highest level of motorsports competition. Much respect to their organization, even though they are not owned by Ford.

Its the people that think honda motors are the epitome of performance that irk me.


Me too. But the K series is brutal boosted.
Buddy of mine has a EK with a boosted K swap. over 500whp @ 16psi on C16. At 24psi (over 600) the rings finally let loose, just cracked the #2 compression ring. Everything else is holding together just fine. He's run 18psi all year long (well since April actually) and put about 13,000 miles on the car.

Kinda doubting too many factory N/A 4 bangers can manage that and hold together.


Oh, and he still gets 40mpg, or can.



hell I almost forgot, so is Turbo Turtle's build sacrilege too? (Chevy engine in a Focus)

yep K series is where its at. I was going to go K on my old EK hatch. Instead I went with a gsr [b18c] with toda cams and had to up the compression a lil bit... it had the shittiest idle but hauled like you wouldnt believe.

600whp in a 2400lb car fwd. That's gotta scare the piss out him. I just swapped the old 2.3 Turbo lima into a fox body mustang. Stock block can go up to 400rwhp. Not bad for 500 dollars and an old as dirt design. These are the kind of swaps I dig, bang for the buck (which is the main purpose afterall in hot rodding). Not these magazine article type deals that cost more than a new car.

The point being is that Mazda is Japanese, just like Honda. If the nation of origin is the reason that people are against such a swap, just realize that Ford is already in bed with a Japanese manufacturer.

Honda has competed in the highest level of motorsports competition. Much respect to their organization, even though they are not owned by Ford.

Dont forget that our little focuses have rally heritage from the Escort going back to the 70's [;)]

yep K series is where its at. I was going to go K on my old EK hatch. Instead I went with a gsr [b18c] with toda cams and had to up the compression a lil bit... it had the shittiest idle but hauled like you wouldnt believe.

Yup, i have a couple friends with K swaps, but theyre all N/A. And I seen vids of the toda killer cams, damn thing sounds like a v8 at idle.

I had a thermal r&d exhaust on it, so it had a nice deep tone. I didnt like how loud it was from 7-9000 tho. way too loud. as long as you get flat dish pistons and a thinner headgasket you can get some decent power out of it. the only thing that sucks about it is the toda cams are really really hard on timing belts. you gotta change em every year or you run the risk of a bad time on the side of the road. having to have you and your friend push the car while traffic flies past you like nothings happening.

Hennessey Tuned EcoBoost TTV6 in a Focus. kthx.

600whp in a 2400lb car fwd. That's gotta scare the piss out him. I just swapped the old 2.3 Turbo lima into a fox body mustang. Stock block can go up to 400rwhp. Not bad for 500 dollars and an old as dirt design. These are the kind of swaps I dig, bang for the buck (which is the main purpose afterall in hot rodding). Not these magazine article type deals that cost more than a new car.


Him, no. Me, kinda, but I know he knows how to drive. This is the daily car [doorpeek]the track car is an 800+hp EVO (kid's got money, races ATV's and sleds pro).



The lima swap has been done, and in a wagon no less. You can thank Mr. Joe Morgan for that one. He used to post on FJ, but that was eons ago.

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/75638_2000_drag_ford_focus_wagon/index.html

The #3 most bad ass Focus ever made for the strip, #1 being the late Shaun Carlson and #2 being Ben Ma.

Hennessey Tuned EcoBoost TTV6 in a Focus. kthx.

ooo those new ecoboost motors in the 2010 taurus sho are a force to be reckoned with. 300hp awd evo eating family car. i would like to see this swap done fo sho!

ooo those new ecoboost motors in the 2010 taurus sho are a force to be reckoned with. 300hp awd evo eating family car. i would like to see this swap done fo sho!

The SHO doesnt eat EVOs in any kind of performance test, not sure what youre talking about?

As for the OP's dreams of stuffing a S2K motor in a Focus? It would definitely be interesting, but as others have said, by the time he was done fabricating, working out the electrical, fabricating a RWD set-up, etc, it wouldnt be worth it to get only 240hp and weak arse torque. The best bet would be to simply beef up a Duratec and lay waste to the torqueless S2K engine set-up. Ive driven a few S2Ks and while Im impressed with the handling and decent speed, its an absolute dog when not on the hot cam, and requires a lot of work to keep it in the powerband, so to speak. My absolute fave feature of the S2K? The gearbox, doesnt get much better.

The SHO doesnt eat EVOs in any kind of performance test, not sure what youre talking about?

eh i was just running the mouth for one thing. however i have a sneaky suspicion that those engines are capable of making well over what they are claimed with nothing more than a little tuning. at which point it MIGHT be a evo eater. dunno fo sho yet. have to see one in action. dodge claimed the SRT-10 ram pickup could stomp a ford lightening. on paper it made sense. lined them up and the lightening smoked the dodge every time according to road and track.

sho<EVO

^^^x2

The only thing about the SHO and Eco Boost is that stupid parent control, I bet thats tied into the ECU and will be on almost Eco Boost car they make.

wahts the parent control? i havent heard of that.

The parents can basically tel the car it can only go so fast and they can see how youve driven the car if I understood what I read about it awhile back.

im pretty curious however.... i see everyones idea and reasoning behind building a high end honda motor... however... where it goes fuzzy with me is... besides the money involved to do such a swap.... and build... etc.. etc.....

the focus chasis starts to have severe traction issues once over the 350-400whp range... which is very attainable out of the zetec or duratec for much cheaper then you'd swap in and build a honda motor for.... so how may i ask are you going to get this daily driven car to stick to the pavement if your powergoals are so high they require a different platform... slicks year round would not be a good idea imo... driving in the rain would be interesting... let alone the cost of setting up the rest of the car to hold up to that kind of abuse.... if you do happen to get the power to the pavement all at once.... something is going to give without being re-inforced....

im not against the swap or build... it would be interesting to see.... but dont let your "honda friends" make you think that the focus engine is nothing.... hell the svt motor has been pushed over 350whp daily driven on multiple occasions without internal modification.... which btw... at 350+whp.... breaking traction at highway speed isnt unheard of....

anyways.... just look at all the cards before deciding on such a costly build.... i guarantee it will not be cheaper then building the motor you have already in the car to surpass your "honda friends"... you can build a fully forged zetec for under $2k if you play your cards right.... which would hold up to your 400+whp dreams... so do your research... and which ever route you choose... do have fun with it.

good luck either way
-AcId-

im pretty curious however.... i see everyones idea and reasoning behind building a high end honda motor... however... where it goes fuzzy with me is... besides the money involved to do such a swap.... and build... etc.. etc.....

the focus chasis starts to have severe traction issues once over the 350-400whp range... which is very attainable out of the zetec or duratec for much cheaper then you'd swap in and build a honda motor for.... so how may i ask are you going to get this daily driven car to stick to the pavement if your powergoals are so high they require a different platform... slicks year round would not be a good idea imo... driving in the rain would be interesting... let alone the cost of setting up the rest of the car to hold up to that kind of abuse.... if you do happen to get the power to the pavement all at once.... something is going to give without being re-inforced....

im not against the swap or build... it would be interesting to see.... but dont let your "honda friends" make you think that the focus engine is nothing.... hell the svt motor has been pushed over 350whp daily driven on multiple occasions without internal modification.... which btw... at 350+whp.... breaking traction at highway speed isnt unheard of....

anyways.... just look at all the cards before deciding on such a costly build.... i guarantee it will not be cheaper then building the motor you have already in the car to surpass your "honda friends"... you can build a fully forged zetec for under $2k if you play your cards right.... which would hold up to your 400+whp dreams... so do your research... and which ever route you choose... do have fun with it.

good luck either way
-AcId-


very true!

I'm sure they get duratec swapped civics all the time on their boards too.

^ actually i came a cross a civic build with an SR20det swap in it FWD, and he's building another SR20det swapped civic with RWD.

thats the only engine i would ever swap in my foci. SR20 baby :) redtop

blacktop is better

gotta get ready for Race Wars

gotta get ready for Race Wars

lol

Yeah, and drop a "100 grand" into your motor before you go, too. [rofl]

if im going to drop 100 grand into my motor its going to make 3000whp and will be guaranteed to run for at least 300,000 miles. most idiotic fast and furious comment out of that whole movie lol.

i could see 100k in a motor if you build a motor to turn 14k+rpm and make 800+whp.... lots of custom parts.... it would be interesting to have a 100k budget just to build a motor... esp. a 4cyl. of any kind.... sounds fun really....

anyways.... one of the most interesting swaps ive seen in a focus besides the twin turbo v8... is the rb26dett complete with awd conversion making in the ball park of 500whp in a full tube chasis wide body car...

the sky is the limit if your pockets are deep enough...

-AcId-

What ??

Honda engine in a Focus? Blashphemy. Echhhh

there is no way this is a serious post...please help us alll

here is a swap to go for....

forums.focaljet.com/team-pit-stop/568458-rb26dett-focus.html

i couldnt find the full write up anymore... but there are a couple pics of it.... one amazing car.

-AcId-

^^^ Says URL not found.

linky no worky

copy and paste... for some reason it wont work any other way...

-AcId-

ooo zion widebody. beautiful car but if im going to that much trouble im stuffing a V8