Hi, just looking now at getting a tune...from what i have seen, i can just get a used flasher, and then just get a tune sent to me...is that correct?

If so, what is the best flasher? I have seen SCT, but seen a lot of problems noted with them. In their case, what is the diff b/t the xcal2 and xcal3? will either work?

Is there another brand that is better?

Thanks.

Contact Turbo Tom. He can get you a deal on a predator tuner with his custom tune.

I know what he can do...i just want to know more about my general questions above...he can also email me a tune. i just need to know about the flashers first.

From what i understand, the predator wont work with d-tecs, SCT sf3/X2/x3 will work. X3/sf3 are newer devices with a few more options as compares the x2. The x2 is the baseline unit, and does everything youll probably need it to do as compared to the x3 /sf3. They (x3/sf3) have more things the average person wont utilize, mainly datalogging options i believe. X3 can only hold 3 custom tunes, while the sf3 comes preloaded with multiple tunes for multiple vehicles and.... Can hold3 custom tunes as well as the preloaded ons.

I sell a fair amount of SCT flashers and dont see a lot of issues with them at all , keep in mind on forums the only thing you will see is the bad press you wont see the 500 good flasher to 1 with issues and in most cases it is lack of knowledge in a lot of cases on most issues

Yes you can buy a used flasher then buy a tune , just make sure the flasher is UNLOCKED and the guy your getting it from put the stock tune back in his car or the flasher is worthless , it cost 150.00 + shipping for SCT to unlock it

I sell a good tune and it works it comes from years and 1000`s of cars on the dyno , if I can help let me know

Tom

tom, you charge 125 for your remote tunes right?

and all i need is the xcal2 right? that is the same as the sct?

thanks.

tom, you charge 125 for your remote tunes right?

and all i need is the xcal2 right? that is the same as the sct?

thanks.

SCT is the company...X2 is one of the devices we sell.[;)]

correct 125.00 and a xcal2 or xcal3 will work

Tom

and i would only net about 5 hp though, right?

does anyone sell used SCT stuff?

I cant say what HP gaines you will see that depends mods , octane , if your car is a low or high HP car already so its hard to say what you will see , Like I have said before a tune isnt like Nitrous it isnt going to add 20HP , If thats what your expecting dont get it

Tom

no, not expecting that...remember, im old...probly older than you tom lolz.

just trying to justify 400 to 500 bucks for 5 hp. i would expect a tune would change [I]where[I] the power comes from though...like, the hp and tq curves, correct?

From what i understand usualy your rated power numbers only gain about 5 at the wheel on average. But lower down the curve can be up around 10.... This from all the investigating ive done. Driveability increases because your car responds better across the whole range. I found about 90% say it increase the fun factor of the car. That too me sounds like the car gained something. I will be purchasing toms amazing tune friday... And will be doing the datalogged runs and working with tom through email next week hopefully. So a couple weeks from friday, after everything is proper and had time to adjust... I'll pm you my thoughts. Wow Nem... You are an old fart! Now i see why your mind powers are so strong... ;-)

yes, please do let me know...but i am also curious on how the process of remote tuning will go for you. biggest thing i would want to see is the AFR...which is what i am guessing is the point of the adjustments...

yes, old, but can still bench press 340. so watch out! hahhahahah

How old do you have to be to be an "old fart" LOL

Tom

wait. 125? i thought that it was 375? Correct me

The Diablo flasher is 375.00 , the xcal3 is 379.00 , if youhave a flasher then the tune is 125.00

Tom

lol, we mighta just given that kid a heart attack at that 125 price!

so tom is the flasher separate from the tune, or does the 379 include the tune?

can you do a tune for 87 or 89, that will still give me more power? i dont want to do 91/93. is it still worth it? consider i have an intake and exhaust.

379.00 comes with a tune , a 87 tune wont do much performance , the 89 wont do much but done forget about the other things the tune does as well

Tom

yes, please do let me know...but i am also curious on how the process of remote tuning will go for you. biggest thing i would want to see is the AFR...which is what i am guessing is the point of the adjustments...

yes, old, but can still bench press 340. so watch out! hahhahahah

Holy shit! 340?? You must be a freaking monster! Im a little turd, most ive hit was 220, but i got 240 once on the incline press. I unfortunitly dont workout anymore since it costs to much for a membership anywhere. Anyways.. the only way to actually see AFR is from a wideband 02 sensor, which i dont have. I believe tom tunes remotely off of stft, maf voltage, and timing among others. Im sure he has enough data logged to know roughly where you AFR is off of our fuel trims and narrowband voltage. And im willing to bet its still going to be a tad richer then "the perfect" wot AFR fuel setpoint.. Just to be on the safe side.

How old do you have to be to be an "old fart" LOL

Tom

I classify old fart age being around my dads age..a little over 60. I dont know how old you old farts really are, just felt like giving some old farts a hard time! ;-) I will be pm-ing the crap out of you tommorrow for that tune Tom. I cant freaking wait! If possibly could you pm me your email address, for its the easiest way for me to communicate.. Unless you want me to call you?

Holy shit! 340?? You must be a freaking monster! Im a little turd, most ive hit was 220, but i got 240 once on the incline press. I unfortunitly dont workout anymore since it costs to much for a membership anywhere. Anyways.. the only way to actually see AFR is from a wideband 02 sensor, which i dont have. I believe tom tunes remotely off of stft, maf voltage, and timing among others. Im sure he has enough data logged to know roughly where you AFR is off of our fuel trims and narrowband voltage. And im willing to bet its still going to be a tad richer then "the perfect" wot AFR fuel setpoint.. Just to be on the safe side.



I classify old fart age being around my dads age..a little over 60. I dont know how old you old farts really are, just felt like giving some old farts a hard time! ;-) I will be pm-ing the crap out of you tomorrow for that tune Tom. I cant freaking wait! If possibly could you pm me your email address, for its the easiest way for me to communicate.. Unless you want me to call you?

Yes, richer would be better than lean. So Tom says that the 87 or 89 wont do much for me...so I guess I wont do this unless I find a flasher really cheap. what are the other things the tune does? i would not change the rev limiter. gokart, you can just let me use yours for 100 bucks.

ha...bench 220...i weigh 220.

but a SVT 93 Tune would do what? +5 like the board has been sayin, Less of a fall on its face in frist, a true "trac off"?

Yes, richer would be better than lean. So Tom says that the 87 or 89 wont do much for me...so I guess I wont do this unless I find a flasher really cheap. what are the other things the tune does? i would not change the rev limiter. gokart, you can just let me use yours for 100 bucks.

ha...bench 220...i weigh 220.

Im only 145 when wet... so 220 is pretty good i'd say. You could probably curl me one armed couldnt you? I bought my x3 off a buddy who really needed help. Gave him $250... So in the end i'm not saving much. You could probably beat me up and take it from me. IF you can catch me.

but a SVT 93 Tune would do what? +5 like the board has been sayin, Less of a fall on its face in frist, a true "trac off"?

I have no idea. I know that Stang guys claim 20hp with a tune.

Im only 145 when wet... so 220 is pretty good i'd say. You could probably curl me one armed couldnt you? I bought my x3 off a buddy who really needed help. Gave him $250... So in the end i'm not saving much. You could probably beat me up and take it from me. IF you can catch me.

i could curl you with two hands, not one....just a plate and a 5 on each side. maybe cant catch you, but i was a RB and LB. now train in MMA, and have instructed martial arts (2nd-degree black belt in multi-disciplines). so let me borrow yours, i will tune my car, and send it back to you, for a hundred bucks. waddya think? i will need it for a while tho, you know, trying to get the tune right from Tom.

the only way to actually see AFR is from a wideband 02 sensor, which i dont have. I believe tom tunes remotely off of stft, maf voltage, and timing among others. Im sure he has enough data logged to know roughly where you AFR is off of our fuel trims and narrowband voltage. And im willing to bet its still going to be a tad richer then "the perfect" wot AFR fuel setpoint.. Just to be on the safe side.


It is a MUST to have a AF Gauge to do remote tuning its the only way to know exactly what the AF is

Tom

oh, so looks like you will have to get an AF gauge too gokart!

Nemesis you cannot "borrow" a tuner cause once you tune your car it is VIN Locked to that tuner and must be returned to stock before tuning another car

Hi, just looking now at getting a tune...from what i have seen, i can just get a used flasher, and then just get a tune sent to me...is that correct?

If so, what is the best flasher? I have seen SCT, but seen a lot of problems noted with them. In their case, what is the diff b/t the xcal2 and xcal3? will either work?

Is there another brand that is better?

Thanks.

I'm tuned by Focus Sport. No problems whatsoever. my last mods are the intake manifold and stage 1 cams and i'm done.

oh, so looks like you will have to get an AF gauge too gokart!

Yeah, I know... The list keeps getting longer and longer.

I'm going to bump this thread, since it started getting into AF gauges, but then stopped. I am planning to get a tune from Tom, and want to make sure I get everything needed. I'm getting a tune, mainly for what it can do for the ATX.

1) What are the differences between wideband, and narrowband?

2) Which is the best type to have?

3) Do AF gauges use the HO2S11 sensor?

4) Do you splice into the O2 wiring, or is it plug, and play?

5) Any other tips, or experiences?

Thanks

I'm going to bump this thread, since it started getting into AF gauges, but then stopped. I am planning to get a tune from Tom, and want to make sure I get everything needed. I'm getting a tune, mainly for what it can do for the ATX.
Thanks

1) What are the differences between wideband, and narrowband?
You can think of a narrowband as digital, and a wideband as analog.
I.E. The narrowband 02 sensor switches rapidly between lean and rich (high/low), the ECU monitors this 'heartbeat' and derives a average value. A wideband is analog. It outputs the realtime value linearly from
0 - 5volts.
2) Which is the best type to have?
You need both as the ECU cannot use a wideband signal (It is dependent on the OEM narrowband). The wideband therefore is only used for datalogging and driving A/F meters. You cannot use the narrowband 02 sensor as explained in question 3, the signal is useless for these purposes.
3) Do AF gauges use the HO2S11 sensor?
Clarification: There are 2 general types of A/F gauges. 1 uses the OEM narrowband signal, and are pretty useless. There more of a lightshow than an accurate gauge. A true wideband gauge will specify which widband sensor(s) it will work with. Often they are included with a kit. You get the sensor to match the gauge otherwise.
4) Do you splice into the O2 wiring, or is it plug, and play?
Again, It depends on the gauge. If were discussing a true wideband (Analog), then no as it has nothing to do with the OEM wiring. BUT, the wideband sensor WILL require you install a 'bung' appropriately in your exhaust manifold. I don't know if I would describe it as 'plug and play', but once you get the major items like the bung and gauge mounted, it is then just wiring them up. On a scale of 1 to 10 prob like a 5.
5) Any other tips, or experiences?
Currently, if you have the OEM mani-cat. the only location for the wideband 02 sensor is AFTER the the primary catalyst. This is not optimal obviously but the OEM mani-cat design pretty much precludes installation before the cat. Wideband sensors can burn up if to close to the engine exhaust ports. Tom has stated he can compensate for the wideband sensor being after the primary cat.
Note: It is not necessary to have an A/F gauge to get a tune. The A/F gauge allows you to datalog (if you have the requisite software) and exchange the data with your 'tuner'.

Hope that answered the questions sufficiently! [:)]

C-F-M has a good deal on a A/F Guge its the AEM and I like those for the money

Tom

1) What are the differences between wideband, and narrowband?
You can think of a narrowband as digital, and a wideband as analog.
I.E. The narrowband 02 sensor switches rapidly between lean and rich (high/low), the ECU monitors this 'heartbeat' and derives a average value. A wideband is analog. It outputs the realtime value linearly from
0 - 5volts.


To elaborate on this, narrowband sensors can only measure within very narrow band near 14.7:1, and can only signal when the engine is above or below a near perfect "stoich" mixture.

Wideband sensors can accurately measure AF mixture ranges from approx 10:1 to 21:1 on a precise linear scale so you can accurately determine what is going on beyond that narrow window near 14.7:1

Depending on the power output on the engine, the fuel mixture at WOT will range between 13.4:1 for stock NA engines, through 11:1 for more radical FI builds. If you were looking at both of these engines with a narrowband sensor, they would both show that the sensor was "pinned rich", but you would have no way of knowing if you were near the fuel mixture you wanted.

Thus the need for a wideband sensor........

2) Which is the best type to have?
You need both as the ECU cannot use a wideband signal (It is dependent on the OEM narrowband). The wideband therefore is only used for datalogging and driving A/F meters. You cannot use the narrowband 02 sensor as explained in question 3, the signal is useless for these purposes.


Yes, while this is 100% true, some Wideband controllers provide a "simulated" narrowband output that can be wired into the vehicle's ECU.

So from the Wideband sensor controller, you get a wideband and narrowband output. The Wideband goes to the AF meter, the narrowband output goes back to the ECU.

This allows you to replace your stock sensor with a wideband, solving the problems above and you dont have to weld in a separate bung.

I was using the Innovate Motorports LC-1 to do just that.

I don't even know what to say, other than WOW. I fully expected this to go unanswered, or "It needs a drop, and tint, dude.".

Thank you for your replies.

So, at this stage(100% stock), I don't need a AF gauge, to get a tune. And, can wait till I do other mods. But, to get the full benefit of a tune, I should add this to the list. Sound about right?

some Wideband controllers provide a "simulated" narrowband output that can be wired into the vehicle's ECU.

So from the Wideband sensor controller, you get a wideband and narrowband output. The Wideband goes to the AF meter, the narrowband output goes back to the ECU.

This allows you to replace your stock sensor with a wideband, solving the problems above and you dont have to weld in a separate bung.

I was using the Innovate Motorports LC-1 to do just that.

OK. I will apologize for threadjacking but.....

TB1999 >> Please continue to elaborate. [:)]
I was aware that the LC-1 can provide a simulated narrowband signal, but, at least for the LC-1 it seemed from the Innovate forum that the signal was not usable 'right out of the box' and generally required some post filtering to match the target ECU. Please relate your own experiences. And, most importantly, Did you replace the #1 02 sensor in the stock manifold with a wideband? This has been THE question as according to innovate, it's too close to the exhaust ports but the examples given are for HP engines. The recommended generic distance is 12 - 18 inches, so for a Dtec 2.0 the distance is ~3 inches, the 2.3 is ~5 inches. But somehow the OEM narrowband seems to survive and thrive.
roosterst >>Just FYI: The AEM has EITHER a simulated narrowband OR a linear voltage that goes to the AF meter/datalogger. They are mutually exclusive. [mecry]
And
So, at this stage(100% stock), I don't need a AF gauge, to get a tune. And, can wait till I do other mods. But, to get the full benefit of a tune, I should add this to the list. Sound about right?
Yup! Your right on the mark.[thumb]

If you want the safest and best tune then get a wide band AF gauge

Tom

[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)];2690726]I'm tuned by Focus Sport. No problems whatsoever. my last mods are the intake manifold and stage 1 cams and i'm done.

Im glad you like your tune , If you had got tue tune from me (focus-power) your new mods/tune would of been free vs paying 35.00 to 300.00 more for future tunes ,My guess is fs will charge you about 300 to tune intake and cams , let me know if I am wrong

Tom

OK. I will apologize for threadjacking but.....

TB1999 >> Please continue to elaborate. [:)]
I was aware that the LC-1 can provide a simulated narrowband signal, but, at least for the LC-1 it seemed from the Innovate forum that the signal was not usable 'right out of the box' and generally required some post filtering to match the target ECU. Please relate your own experiences. And, most importantly, Did you replace the #1 02 sensor in the stock manifold with a wideband? This has been THE question as according to innovate, it's too close to the exhaust ports but the examples given are for HP engines. The recommended generic distance is 12 - 18 inches, so for a Dtec 2.0 the distance is ~3 inches, the 2.3 is ~5 inches. But somehow the OEM narrowband seems to survive and thrive.

I used mine in position #2, at that 12-18 inch range. It simply replaced the feedback for the downstream sensor. But I killed the downstream O2 position in the calibartion, so it would not pass an OBDII test since the cal was flagged as not having a sensor at pos #2.

I can see where you might have problems using the LC-1 with the simulator if you have to run it at position #2 and meet OBDII, because you'll need a "cheat" for the missing cat, which means you dont have a correct AFR meter then.

After I re-did my exh eliminating the front resonator, I relocated the Wideband to a location after the collector so I could sample the entire exh stream, and now have the original stock units in pos 1 & 2. I never really had to answer the tough questions with the LC1 simulation issues and sensor placement since I was not worried about emissions inspection with a dedicated track car.

Overall, I would be concerned running an expensive Wideband sensor in pos #1 so close to the head, the heat will be brutal, but you might get lucky provided you are not running on the lean side....

I wouldnt worry about it, alot of Honda's run the same $200 sensor as their every day from the factory sensor that most widebands use.

still havent gotten one myself. seems like too much of an investment, both fixed and variable, with paying for higher octane.

might have to get one though, when i upgrade my ignition.

I would invest in the A/F before ignition upgrade , I dont think you will see anything from ignition upgrade

Tom

lol, no, i meant i do not have a tune. the new ignition can lean you out a bit.

is it necessary to have an a/f guage when running an N/A engine or is that mostly for F/I?

you can do it without an a/f gauge for a lightly modded n/a, but for safety reasons, the tuner will tip a bit to the rich side. this will have you leave a few hp/tq on the table. when you consider a tune usually only nets you an extra 5-7 hp, that is a lot to leave out there.

tom can tune you to exactly where you are actually supposed to be, but only with an a/f gauge for readings. (i got this all from Tom in another post).