my focus with the tune from my x3, would start every other time i would go to start it, the other half of the time it would crank over like it's not getting spark or something. i would crank it for about 2 minutes then it would start. so i set it back to stock and now it starts and runs fine every time with no problems. what in the tune could be causing this, the timing advanced too much or something? it's funny cause it start's then it don't then it doe's, literally every other time![dunno][rant]

?? Is it a custom tune or a preloaded sct tune?

?? Is it a custom tune or a preloaded sct tune?
custom[nutkick], i told them my mods, they loaded the tune on the x3 before they shipped it. the x3 doesn't have the pre-load tunes anymore bty. [thumb]

Try having them add ISC air during crank. Worked for me when I had longer than normal crank times.


but 2 minutes is a very long time to be cranking, there are bigger problems here.

not 2 mins constant i crank 3 sec., then let it stop then another 3-6 sec... for 40 sec. to almost 2 min...[unsure] then the next time it will start the first 5 sec. i don't think it's the car, it start fine with the stock tune! unless something is wrong with the car that the tune has a problem with?

Yeah sounds like my suggestion may fix the problem. When I first loaded my tune I had a similar issue it was sort of choking off when I started it, so I added ISC air at crank and the problem disappeared.

you can check if this is the problem by slightly opening the throttle after you turn the key to on but before you actually start the car.

Dude this is why

is the fuel smoke something of concern? an does anyone know what might cause it to no start right away? it's turns over like it's not getting spark but then it starts after a while and runs good. it's not throwing a code, but i think my idle valve is bad cause it wants to idle at 1500-2200. so i taped off 2 of the 3 holes on the tb idle circuit for now. it bought it down to 1000. but i hate it not starting![rant]


you need to uncover those holes, and then get your tuner to work out your idle issues in the tune.

you can check if this is the problem by slightly opening the throttle after you turn the key to on but before you actually start the car.
dude!!!!! [clap]thet's what i have to do to get it to start the times it will start, i just thought that had to do with me having 2/3's of my idle circuit taped off temporarily to bring the idle down do to a bad controlle valve. but ya, i have to press the gas a little for it to start. but it only work every other time.[screwy]

If you want it fixed 100% youre going to have to un-tape the idleholes and talk to your tuner about the high idle.

Dude this is why




you need to uncover those holes, and then get your tuner to work out your idle issues in the tune.

i think it's set at 800 rpm's already. the idle went up like a week before i tuned it
i think it might be the control valve. there $75 so i taped it for now cause i don't want it idling that high while i'm driving around.[idea]

ok well if its bad on your old tune then its the valve... you know your problem no need for this thread really...

i think i know the problem of the high idle. but i'm at a loss to why my car won't start with the sct tune, and starts fine with the stock tune.[scratch] but i'll try pulling the tape. it just hit me what ISC air is[slap] the valve may or may not be bad if it is bad though u can't work with idle air on the tune. i didn't think of the idle being related to the no start that's why i started this thread, i thought there was something more complex or technical causing my problem, but if u had a similar problem and that fixed it i'm sure that's probably the cause of my trouble [thumb] thanks for your help!

actually YOU cant work with it on the tune no matter what, but your tuner can!

The valve controls how much air gets in during cranking as well as during idle, coasting, and on some tunes its even open during part and full throttle.

Get a new valve, remove that tape, and try loading your tune again. [thumb]

i get payed Friday, i'm planning on getting it then. i'll post the outcome...[wave]

I had the IAC valve get funky on my svtc. Took it off and hosed it down with brake kleen. Fixed my problem and cost me nothing. Maybe worth a try?

thank's gocart, i bet it would work, but it's the second used valve i've went with and i really want to go with a brand new one now. new cv's have a 2 year warranty, so i'm covered for 2 years of freebies if the first one don't work. i appreciate the help though![clap][wave][:D]

i took off the tape and changed out the idle control valve, it still want's to idle high.[scratch] that's $75 wasted! but it did give me a chance to put in the sending unit for my oil pressure gauge.[nutkick] i read a thread about the maf causing the idle to do funny things. so i'm going to get some maf cleaner asap. it makes sense to me because i had water get sucked into my motor, the cold air tube worked like a straw when i drove threw deep road puddle. that could of fouled it[idea]

also try unplugging your negative battery cable for 30 minutes so it re-learns idle strategy.

sweet, thanks dude, i'll do that tomarrow![clap] still may get the cleaner too, it won't hurt.

i disconnected the neg cable, it dropped for a while but was eradic. so i cleaned the maf, but the idle was still all over the place, from 500 to 2200. the idle seemed to be different every time i pressed on the clutch, but it was still better then a constant 2000+. today i cleaned the maf again and disconnected the neg cable after. i took it on a beer run and the idle didn't shoot up passed 1400 but it didn't hold sill either.[scratch] i'm doing a log tomorrow, hopefully that will shed some light on it.

datalog throttle position relative to closed, drive around for 30-60 seconds, and post the results.

btw, also log other useful stuff like rpm, stft, ...

one that would be really good to look at is throttle mode flag

though it fought me tooth and nail, i managed to get a good log saved of a little idle and a hard excel. mines a stick so shift is na. what's bwt? i got rpm, frp, fpdc, load, short term, and some other things that didn't record.[scratch] but i have no idea how get the log from live link to here.[?|] how did u get yours on the open loop thread?

btw = by the way

dont log fuel rail pressure. you want to log pressure drop across injectors.

I have been taking screenshots (print screen button) open mspaint, ctrl-v, save as jpeg, post to photobucket, post here.

also try to log values in caps, they update faster. Plus a lot of the lowercase ones arent actually being recorded.

i was wondering why i couldn't find btw in the list of parameters. [clap] i pressed print screen a hundred times and my laptop does nothing at all.[rant] so i guess i can't post it.

it doesnt do anything that you can see. it copies the screen to the clipboard.

you have to open paint and paste the image (ctrl-v).

open it from were, if i can't see it i don't know were it is.[paranoid]

1. hold down the window key, then press r and let both go

2. type in mspaint

3. click ok

4. hold down Ctrl and press v then let both go

5. save the picture as a .jpeg (be sure to change the dropdown where it says .bmp)

that was some sweet trickery!!![clap] i never knew my comp could do that! http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/wildfire329/untitled.jpg
i don't know if this says anything important to my problem.

Your strategy is going to be a bit different, but in the future try to log the following:

iat: environment -> INLET_AIR_TEMP
ect: environment -> COOLANT_TEMP
maf counts: maf -> MAF_AD_COUNTS
load: maf -> LOAD
knock retard: knock_sensor -> SPARK_ADDER_KNK_SENSOR_ARRAY
spark: spark -> SPARK
rpm: misc -> ENGINE_SPEED
fuel psi drop inj: fuel_pump -> PRESSURE_DROP_ACROSS_FUEL_INJE
tps: misc -> THROTTLE_POSITION_RELATIVE_CLOS
stft1: fuel -> SHORT_TERM_FUEL_TRIM_BANK_1


...im going to make a mega-post this weekend about datalogging and such, these questions keep getting answered over and over.

ok, i'll log that stuff tomorrow and post it.[pray]

please also log THRT_MODE_FLAG or something like that.

i got a log that with all the parameters that i hope are relevant to my idle being too high.[cheers] i know[offtopic] but it's the same problem i had all along, my temp. fix for it (with the tape) caused the hard start, which i started this thread to solve. maybe i should start a new thread...[paranoid] oh well.
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/wildfire329/hidlog.jpg
from half way between 17. & 20. in till 24. the rpm's stuck at 2000 without my foot touching the gas. 10.-13 has a crazy flatline were i swear the rpm peaked at 6500 before i let off[screwy][clap][scratch] if anyone can mack anything out of this then shweet!!!![thumb]

just so everyone knows i had him send me the .csv. to look at, much easier to see whats going on.

at 10-13, something happened to the connection. it just didnt record data.

To answer another one of your questions, your fuel pressure is fine.

before i make any other assumptions, I need to know what tune this is (who sent it to you?), and what all is done to your car.

Next log, log VEHICLE_SPEED as well. it helps to diagnose which part of the tune is causing the problem with idle (and helps tell if it is the tune or the car).

maybe i can set it to stock and do another log?[paranoid]

it would help us find out if the problem is your car or the tune, so go for it.

well heres a shot of a data log i did a short while ago with my stock tune [driving]
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/wildfire329/stockdlog.jpg
it looks different!!![clap] it clung at 2200 rpms after i let off.[thumbd]

In both logs your throttle position relative to closed never went to 0 and your throttle mode flag never went to -1. This means your car isnt even entering idle control.

Either you need to re-adjust your idle screw, your you have a bad tps.

I'm jumping in here without reading the whole thread...... so if I repeat something... oh well.

The tune could be corrupt, a bad chip (has happened to me personally) of your TPS sensor could be going bad (also experienced this before)

Try pulling a plug, dump a couple ounces of gas into the cylinder, reinstall plug and try to start it.... if it starts right off the bat you may want to check the TPS.

A high reading on the TPS will cause the ECU to think it is in "flood mode" which means it thinks you have flodded the car and have the throttle opened (high TPS counts) trying to crank the cylinders dry... in which case it tells the injectors to not inject gas.

The one thing I dont understand is why the ecu isnt re-setting the relative tps counts to 0 on each key cycle. there has to be some kind of failed tps mode going on, i'm really pointing to the tps.

But first check that your idle screw is back off all the way, then put it out just a smidge so the throttle doesnt stick. This is free, a tps costs money [;)]

i had another tps lying around on another intake. so i threw it on and POOF it runs fine, [clap] idles down to 650- 1000 and seems pretty steady. i loaded the tune back in it, but it doesn't seem to have as much power with a good tps as it did with the bad one. i did another dl. it looks better.[poke]
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/wildfire329/newtpsdl.jpg

yep, your throttle mode flag is following your driving (-1 idle, 0 part throttle, 1 WOT) and your tps counts are going back down to 0.

um. your "tune" is knocking pretty bad. I would give the "tuner" a call or just go back to stock.

is there anything eles wrong or rather worse than it could be?[scratch]

idle is trimming a bit lean, so the rest of the MTF is probly a bit lean too

i wonder if some of this stuff could be adjusted on devise? when i load the tune i think it gives me an adjustments option. so which way do u get rid of the knock, advance or retard?

i wonder if some of this stuff could be adjusted on devise?

spark yes, closed loop fueling no, open loop fueling yes. But you really shouldnt change open loop fueling unless you have a wideband.

so which way do u get rid of the knock, advance or retard?

If you have to ask this question then you should not be making adjustments.

well i thought that the tune retards the knock so maybe they did it too much causing it to knock. it's my guess, i just wanted to be sure.

yep thats right

check your email.

The one thing I dont understand is why the ecu isnt re-setting the relative tps counts to 0 on each key cycle.

Actually the TPS should NOT be at 0, all of my Fords (4 of them) run between 70 and 90 TPS counts at idle (which is around .95v... right where it should be)

my 65mm tb has three mounting angles for the tps. the plug on it was on a 45 on the stock tb, so i put it in the middle set of holes cause it matches the stock angle.

Actually the TPS should NOT be at 0, all of my Fords (4 of them) run between 70 and 90 TPS counts at idle (which is around .95v... right where it should be)

John we're looking at tp relative to closed. Yes the absolute doesnt need to go to zero, but the PCM uses TP relative so that is what I look at to understand whats going on.

tp relative should reset to 0 every key cycle.

good. then my tps is probably at the right angle then.[idea][paranoid][clap]