I want to know how to drift a focus in the snow.
I was trying it today, i don think it really has enough grid to do so.
it is more like sliding...
and i just swing up to the crub.

how to gain control of the car and how to use the clutch?

if it is wrong to talk about it, just delete the thread, please don ban me...
i don think it should be in the racing discussion.

i just want to know more about drifting.

lol, drifting is for rwd cars... the only way to do it in a focus is to put teh rear wheels on some like lunch trays or something and just have your front tires drag you around.

^^^ agree

I think you are just over steering and think your drifting. I have a friend that drifts his 86 corolla and 240sx and trust me you need a RWD car. If you watch the G4 drifting comp. none of the car on that show are FWD. First step to drifting is to get a RWD car or get skid pads for your tires.

If you do drift you are going to need a really good clutch and need a good brake set up. You will also need to replace you rear brake pad often. My friend gets his changed ever month and spends over a grand on tires too.

here is a link that my help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDEhcnO2eik
don't do this on public streets, you should find a drift track near you

i know that is why i did it on snow...
it just doesn't feel right...
so when your FWD lost control, there is nothing you can do to regain control?
coz i seen so many online video about AWD drifting on snow and they seems to have tractions.

i guess i will get a AWD before i think about drifting again.

still i want to know how!! can you guys share if you have drifting experience!

when your going around a corner you have to yank the e-brake, but at the right time....now that I told you that, I also definately dont suggest doing that anywhere, the chances of loosing control are very high, which means it could damage your car, or hurt you or someone else. Its also pretty hard on your car...

go in a straight line, turn the wheel slightly, and as you start to go around, rip the ebrake, and the back end goes around

Yes, you can regain control of a RWD car after it skids. (or any car for that matter, if you know how to)

The AWD car has more traction on the snow because it's All Wheel Drive. Not just front or rear wheel drive.

Just slide around on the snow like you've been doing, presumably using your parking brake, and have fun. Just watch out for pot holes and curbs hidden by the snow.

Also, reverse donuts are fun! I shouldn't even have to say this but do this crap in a big open parking lot with no cars around and you should be OK. Five-O might give you crap for it but you can make up your own mind to take the risk or not.

when your going around a corner you have to yank the e-brake, but at the right time....now that I told you that, I also definately dont suggest doing that anywhere, the chances of loosing control are very high, which means it could damage your car, or hurt you or someone else. Its also pretty hard on your car...

i understand, the body will sway too much for that cornering.
i won't do that, because i know all you can do with FWD is sliding... haha
i will wait until i have a AWD...

Yeah with a FWD, it is sliding and nothing more....

With a AWD it will be hard, when I put my truck into 4x4, it is very hard to break the truck loose even in snow, and I have more torque than your average suburu at the wheels too(maybe not the high end ones or modded). I must say though, I do have sort of aggressive tires(BF-AT) compared with a low profile.

When I go around corners in 2WD its a different story though, even with a little bit of gas I will swing the back end around, because there is no weight over the rear axle of a truck, combined with all the power. If you want to drift you either have to do 2 things

1) lessen the traction(truck with nothing in the bed and a torque'y motor and gear ratio in the differential)

2) Have a moddified AWD or RWD car

Take this information and be very careful though, it is very dangerous to do this on streets and illegal. Like said earlier go to an empty parking lot, or better yet go to a winter driving school. They will teach you everything and the instructor will keep every varible in control, not to mention its really fun.

I have tried to drift in my nissan pickup truck for the hell of it. That truck was super torque with the KA24E. It had no traction in the rear. Don't worry i did this at a drift event my friend went to lol.

If you really want the drifting experience in snow, just do what I did. Snow tires up front, bald tires in back. The back end will break loose on every turn, but with throttle you can control it.

I didn't do this on purpose though, and put snow tires in back a few weeks later.

You should by no means pull teh ebrake. you should learn to control the oversteer first. do a scandinavian flick and enduce oversteer controlled. If you pull the ebrake, you do not know where the pt. is where you will go past oversteer. You need to practice first, then pull the ebrake after you have that down. you need to learn the physics of ur car. take it to a parking lot. NO EBRAKE. enduce oversteer. then after a while, you can start easing into the ebrake. chances are you will spin out if you just start ebraking.

Yeah with a FWD, it is sliding and nothing more....

With a AWD it will be hard, when I put my truck into 4x4, it is very hard to break the truck loose even in snow, and I have more torque than your average suburu at the wheels too(maybe not the high end ones or modded). I must say though, I do have sort of aggressive tires(BF-AT) compared with a low profile.

When I go around corners in 2WD its a different story though, even with a little bit of gas I will swing the back end around, because there is no weight over the rear axle of a truck, combined with all the power. If you want to drift you either have to do 2 things

1) lessen the traction(truck with nothing in the bed and a torque'y motor and gear ratio in the differential)

2) Have a moddified AWD or RWD car

Take this information and be very careful though, it is very dangerous to do this on streets and illegal. Like said earlier go to an empty parking lot, or better yet go to a winter driving school. They will teach you everything and the instructor will keep every varible in control, not to mention its really fun.


that is what i am planing to do in Austria!

What your going to a driving school in Austria? That would be a sweet vacation.

i am just moving there...
guys. i am going to be so much closer to the RS than you guy...
only if i test drive one with my wife and talk her into it...
girls... she wants a family car that has 4 door...
and all i want is a stock turbo that is 2 door with a hatch!!
something like RS... close enough!!

i find that turning slightly and then stabbing the brake and pulling the ebrake slightly can get quick slides out of it.

OK let me be the kill joy here. DON'T BE PULLIN' THE e-brake. I have learned this valuable lesson the hard way so I could bring it to you boys and girls the easy way. 1 the e brake is for holding the car "parked" and in the greatest emergency to stop the car if all fluid was lost in the system and thats just one save me please from dying stop not to stop the car repeatedly. I have done this lots of time in almost every car I own. In everyone I've done this the rear brakes have failed. On my old cars I lost the rear brakes completly on the focus it pulled the e-brake cable out yes I said out of the drum. Now only one side holds the car. This has all been from pulling the e-brake. Now I never tried "drifting" in the focus with the e-brake I would pull it when I would see a cop and if I was speeding so he wouldn't see my brake lights come on or see the nose of my car dive. Well just doing that broke it. On my other cars I would try to slid around but what really broke those was in reverse if you pulled the e-brake the rear of the car would shoot up like I was a low rider so I would do that and make my friends laugh till it broke one day. Life lesson learned. If you really want to be able to lock the rear wheels up or induce a slide I suggest getting some hydroalic rear brakes.

Now to the drifting part like MLB said first learn car control before doing what your trying. Believe me you can drift around corners till the drift requires power to maintain it. Thats where RWD comes into play. Our cars are actually very controllable at the limit. I can flick mine into a turn and and all it ask is point me where you want to go lol. Oh and the drift king himself said it best you don't need good tires to drift lol drift bible 101 lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_flick

^^^nice link and TOP GEAR FTW!!! I'll see if I can track down this episode. I wanna see the Galant VR4 put to the test. I always liked those cars and only seen one in real life. It truly is a sleeper car. Think evo without the great handling but drivetrain de tuned of course. Its basicly a 4 door eclispe of the same year.

If you really want to be able to lock the rear wheels up or induce a slide I suggest getting some hydroalic rear brakes.


All focus's have hydraulic rear brakes standard, SVT's and ST's have disks, while all others have drums stock. In fact I have never seen anything other than Hydraulic brakes on cars(I have seen cable brakes on dirtbikes and other smaller vehicals). Even the brakes on the oldest forklift we have at work, which is from the 60's I think, has hydraulic brakes.

Your rear brakes shouldn't ever fail because you pull the e-brake, the e-brake may fail, but if you press the brake pedal down the brakes should still work with the pedal. In fact to tell you the truth, I havnt ever even had a cars e-brake fail on me, even when riding down gravel roads and yanking on the thing in a 1990 rusted out saturn going around turns.

Even with the scandanavian flick you can still easily loose control and spin out, there is no method of inducing the oversteer or get the rear wheels to follow a larger radius, and be 100% in control of the car, unless your a profession driver.

Go to winter driving school and be safe with it if you want to learn, also take a bunch of pictures of Austria and the RS and post them up when you do. [thumb]

I meant E-brake its controlled by a cable.

So to control your "drift" in the snow, you should turn INTO it. Meaning: if you're sliding and the back side of the car is going to the left, you turn the steering wheel right.

I meant E-brake its controlled by a cable.

oh haha...I see I thought you were talking about the drum brakes in general

Found it VR-4 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6013003826511155604&q=galant+rally)

oh haha...I see I thought you were talking about the drum brakes in general

Oh no drum brakes will lock up just like a disc will. I'm talking about the hardware that controls it. [bath]

I usualy (in snow) yank the e-brake at the right time (gota feel it out kinda) depending on how i slide i just adjust with the brake, if im sliding to much i let off a little (if im not on ice that is lol) or not enough i stay on the brake. You will slide out more often being in a foci, but just learn how to play with your brake a lot, i use the gas a little but not over welmingly. kinda of hard to explain jus comes to you after a little esier to show then tell.

3 yellow fofo in a roll!!!!!!!

i could drift in light snow and heavy ice i duno how i did it but i did it very very well, i used to have it on you tube it was in my high school tennis parking lot it was when my 05 was like 10 thousand miles old

In fact to tell you the truth, I havnt ever even had a cars e-brake fail on me, even when riding down gravel roads and yanking on the thing in a 1990 rusted out saturn going around turns.

I snapped the handbrake cable in my old punto by doing too many handbrake turns.

Step 1: Grab Ebrake
Step 2: Turn wheel
Step 3: opposite lock
Step 4: FUN!!!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/b3passatBMX/SVT%20Focus/Winter1small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/b3passatBMX/SVT%20Focus/461404-R1-11-14_012.jpg

There's a huge parking lot near me that's always empty on Sunday mornings. You can easily get up to 50mph and it's like 200ft wide and do the hugest, longest pendulum drifts across the whole thing. It's the only thing I look forward to in the winter. Sure it's not real "drifting" but who cares, it's damn fun.

Instead of using the ebrake, try getting on the brake with your left foot.

While your front wheels are turned, if you smush (not jab) the brake, it'll tilt the weight of the car onto the front wheels, which will grip, and off the back wheels, which will slide out more.

This will give you TONS more control over when the rear wheels break loose and return to grip. Even then, past 30 mph, it'll be very very hard to read over your first dozens of tries.

Remember if you get heavy on brake, you have to get heavy on the throttle to help keep the power up at the front wheels.

My Focus drifts great.... I'm sure the big healthy V 8 helps.

Instead of using the ebrake, try getting on the brake with your left foot.
While your front wheels are turned, if you smush (not jab) the brake, it'll tilt the weight of the car onto the front wheels, which will grip, and off the back wheels, which will slide out more.
This will give you TONS more control over when the rear wheels break loose and return to grip. Even then, past 30 mph, it'll be very very hard to read over your first dozens of tries.
Remember if you get heavy on brake, you have to get heavy on the throttle to help keep the power up at the front wheels.

Listen to the expert!

My Focus drifts great.... I'm sure the big healthy V 8 helps.

Vid or I call it shenanigans! [clap] (I know you have that beast, I just want to see it in action [hihi])

So to control your "drift" in the snow, you should turn INTO it. Meaning: if you're sliding and the back side of the car is going to the left, you turn the steering wheel right.


uhh....no....if your but is going left you wanna turn left....turning right just helps it to make a 180

One of the more detailed videos on FWD and controlling it, with some explanation of how to LFB and some nice footage:
http://www.drivers-republic.com/dr_tv/index.cfm?videoid=3fdd58508cab4432b32fcc7df8f26274&area=videos
Not everything applies to loose surfaces, but considering how precise his inputs have to be on tarmac, it's quite informative.

this thread is epic fail...you cannot "drift" a fwd car.

this thread is epic fail...you cannot "drift" a fwd car.

When you define drift as whenever the slip angle of the rear wheels exceeds the slip angle of the front wheels, then yes you can. You certainly can't maintain a power-on oversteer kind of drift, but who cares, the guy is learning how to drive his car.

yeah its not necissarily drifting in the technical meaning of the word, more like sliding. I figured thats what the OP meant.

this thread is epic fail...you cannot "drift" a fwd car.

i did mention is sliding but i just want to know drifting
not nessary on focus, because i am planning on a AWD subbi when i move to austria!![mecry]

don tell me it is epic fail!!

yeah its not necissarily drifting in the technical meaning of the word, more like sliding. I figured thats what the OP meant.

drifting people call it sideway...
so it is sliding with control...
which FWD does not offer that control...

When you define drift as whenever the slip angle of the rear wheels exceeds the slip angle of the front wheels, then yes you can. You certainly can't maintain a power-on oversteer kind of drift, but who cares, the guy is learning how to drive his car.

yup and i am planing on taking some "winter" or "advance safty" driving classes. which allow you to drift a little to have fun!![cheers]

When you define drift as whenever the slip angle of the rear wheels exceeds the slip angle of the front wheels, then yes you can. You certainly can't maintain a power-on oversteer kind of drift, but who cares, the guy is learning how to drive his car.

drifting is not defined as that. its a controlled slide, controlled by the driver of the vehicle, in RWD vehicles.

sliding around is not drifting as much as every FWD car owner would like it to be.

learning to drive your car and endangering your life and possibly the life of others is different.

i stand by my statement of epic failure.

drifting is not defined as that. its a controlled slide, controlled by the driver of the vehicle, in RWD vehicles.

sliding around is not drifting as much as every FWD car owner would like it to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drifting_(motorsport)
"A car is said to be drifting when the rear slip angle is greater than the front slip angle prior to the corner apex, and the front wheels are pointing in the opposite direction to the turn (e.g. car is turning left, wheels are pointed right or vice versa), and the driver is controlling these factors."
Even in FWD, these variables can be controlled. If not, FWD rally would be impossible.

The arbitrarily academic definition is backed up by the now drift length record holder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i2Q568aT8M#t=54s

learning to drive your car and endangering your life and possibly the life of others is different.

i stand by my statement of epic failure.
In no way did OP suggest he was endangering anyone.

I want to know how to drift a focus in the snow.
I was trying it today, i don think it really has enough grid to do so.
it is more like sliding...
and i just swing up to the crub.

how to gain control of the car and how to use the clutch?


actually the OP suggested he wasnt in control of the vehicle and he swung up a curb. which also suggests that he was doing near curbs, which indicates people and other things being around. he didnt say oh im out on an abandoned airfield by myself in the middle of the morning when everyone is at work.

no, hes endangering himself and other people, he doesnt have the practice to control his vehicle, he likely is doing it without at least a helmet, what if his tires has smacked the curb at a different angle and sent his car into a roll, he wouldn't have ever posted this thread in that case.

also your definition says and the driver is controlling these factors, he has no control in a FWD car over these factors. not one bit.

you can argue this all you want, but you are wrong. you CANNOT drift a FWD car, no matter how hard you try, and please don't you are likely to hurt something, break something, or kill something.

this thread is epic fail...you cannot "drift" a fwd car.

Wow really? You all knew what he was talking about. Some of you guys get to caught up in being so technically correct you suck the fun out of even posting on a forum. No it's not actually "drifting" but you all knew exactly what he was asking about. And your post above...are you saying that sliding into a curb at low speed in snow with a helmet is going to kill him? Please. You can control a FWD car in a slide, as well as a RWD? Heck no but you can still control it. The parking lot I go to has curbs but that doesn't mean there are people around. We all know your opinion about FWD sliding, so you can probably stop arguing with people. I stand by my statement in that your panties are in a bunch.

which also suggests that he was doing near curbs, which indicates people and other things being around. he didnt say oh im out on an abandoned airfield by myself in the middle of the morning when everyone is at work.

I guess if you want to talk about performance driving, you need assure everyone that yes, you are in the proverbial empty parking lot at midnight (without curbs on the edges like most parking lots).

Seriously you can't ever give anyone the benefit of the doubt, can you? Just too afraid he'll roll his car and wreck it.

btw, fwd snow drifting should be a sport. i would always win. i link all mine together in my neighborhood when i leave it.

Wow really? You all knew what he was talking about. Some of you guys get to caught up in being so technically correct you suck the fun out of even posting on a forum. No it's not actually "drifting" but you all knew exactly what he was asking about. And your post above...are you saying that sliding into a curb at low speed in snow with a helmet is going to kill him? Please. You can control a FWD car in a slide, as well as a RWD? Heck no but you can still control it.

did he say at a low speed? no

did he say he had a helmet? no

yes you can control a fwd car in a slide, on snow? i wouldnt advise it.

nor is anyone going to be able to tell you how to control it better because every car will handle differently in every weather condition. is it thick snow, light snow, is there ice, is it 2inches or 20inches, is the car lowered, is it on stock suspension, what tires are on it, how is the suspension maintained? etc etc etc, i could go on, do you see where i am going with this?

to get a FWD to start sliding you need a certain amount of momentum, of which 5mph is not going to give you. i've rolled a vehicle at less then 20mph due to bad weather. so if you want to get technical i would imagine that it wouldn't take much more then 25mph for me to roll a focus after hitting a curb. to get a focus to start sliding on snow i am sure you are going to need more then 10-15mph and you are going to carry that momentum, because you broke the plane of friction that your tires had with the snow, which means you are in almost no control of the vehicle. so what happens if your momentum carries you faster to 25-30mph in a good 100-150 feet? and you hit that curb at an angle that is undesirable since you are sliding and likely to have your car parallel to the curb instead of perpendicular, do you think you are just going to stop?

this is physics guys.

trying drifting a fwd car in good weather is a tad bit different, you will have more control and your tires will regain the friction with the pavement. snow, ice, water, and etc are all different.

im not trying to be technically correct, im trying to stop him from doing something stupid and causing injury to himself or someone else...cuz oh man, theres an idea. [idea]

I guess if you want to talk about performance driving, you need assure everyone that yes, you are in the proverbial empty parking lot at midnight (without curbs on the edges like most parking lots).

Seriously you can't ever give anyone the benefit of the doubt, can you? Just too afraid he'll roll his car and wreck it.

i can give him the benefit of the doubt, but frankly i am reading his post going "curbs? where are you doing this that there are curbs? wtf?"

i stand by my statement of epic fail. im done. continue to bash logic if you want.

to get a focus to start sliding on snow i am sure you are going to need more then 10-15mph and you are going to carry that momentum, because you broke the plane of friction that your tires had with the snow, which means you are in almost no control of the vehicle.

I have done left-foot-braking induced slides at 15 mph with left little effort at Team O'Neil. It comes with practice; it's certainly not easy.

Can anyone learn how to do it on the street? No way. There's simply not enough control. Can it be learned on the cheap in our proverbial empty parking lot? Yes, with a lot of seat time. Is it better to do it at a school under professional instruction? Yes, but it costs tons of money. Can it be learned at rallycross? Sort of; you're spreading your seat time over events that can be few and far between. Repitition really helps.

As far as safety, we were hitting 50 mph on some of the course configurations at Team O'Neil, and they only require skateboard helmets. Safety is a relative thing. A helmet doesn't ensure you'll be safe; good judgement and careful driving do.

i love SLIDING my car :)

erased

i love SLIDING my car :)

heck yeah

kimbo205 says it right, on snow you can induce a slide at 10-15 mph. But you need to know what you're doing, and understand how controlling your speed, power, and controlling your angle of attack in the corner effect whether you slide straight off of the corner, or you loop out. Not something you should just take up on the side. I spent a lot of hours as a child in an old front drive car with an ex-racer family member teaching me how to slide it. (It helps that my family owns a trucking company, so we have a giant parking lot that I won't get arrested for playing in.) So yes, it can be learned, no you won't learn what you need on this forum. I wish you the best of luck!

just takes practise. the sad part that it wears down your tires so i cost the money to practise

Let's keep this peaceful so it doesn't get locked. Opinions are always welcome but overly opinionated posts incite arguements and are not.

LOL i was going slow, slow enough that doesn't even have body roll...
it just slide up the curb because snow that i pushed became a ramp...
and it was not on the street, just the road on campus.
yes i know it is stupid to do sliding. (Yes i was just being stupid LOL)
but well we all were young.
if am not stupid enough yet to do it when i see people around.

there were like 2 inch of snow, so it was slicker than i assume.
it was slow. like 10mph. but still lost traction.
supension, i dono, it was a used car and i think is stock.
tire, brand new all season tire.

anyway it is not important, because i made up my mine to learn in school.
300 Euro for 2 day... i think i can afford some safty lesson with a little fun in a controled envirnoment.

anyway, don be hateful, just share the joy of sliding or even drifting if you have other cars.

I am internet generation, still believe i can learn everything online. however, there will be still matter of practice!!

thanks guys!

Really too bad you don't get frozen lakes around you. That is a relatively good place to play. Though ice heaves can be dangerous.

You will not regret teh school, it is well worth it and the lessons help you on and off the track. i would had paid double now that i know what i learned!! the best 400 bucks i ever spent, well, sorta.