no comments about the SPI as it says slightly otherwise in the title [hihi] basically my school shop has a 2.3L Duratec that was supposedly from a Fusion, that they sent us as an educational tool a couple years back (I dunno, maybe even last year) but anyway, it hasn't even been unwrapped yet. I just need to know if it would be the same engine as the 2.3L Duratec that's in the Focus. If so....... I could get a hell of a deal, say- FREE [grinking]

You'd probably be better off asking this in the D-tec forum.

I heard this cant be done because the body wiring in the dtec is different from the wiring in zetec and spi.

That engine is not the same as the focus one.

All 2.3 D-tecs ARE created equal.......

I heard this cant be done because the body wiring in the dtec is different from the wiring in zetec and spi.

That engine is not the same as the focus one.

yeah I heard the same thing....... Though now I'm thinking, are there any four door 2.3L Foci out there?? if so, ha I should just swap out all the wiring...

BUT, would that possibly mean a new gauge cluster? those would fit into the dash still, yes? or does anyone think it would just bet better to make a custom harness to fit, say, the SVT cluster?

That engine is not the same as the focus one.

All 2.3 D-tecs ARE created equal.......

Crap......who do I believe???[8]

The only reason why I knew it couldnt fit our cars because of the wiring was because I was going to put a Foci 2.3 in my SPI I was going to get everything I needed for dirt cheap and then found out I couldnt do it :(

^^^ ah.......yeah, wow that really sucks. See I'd heard someone was in the process of it, but just got fed up with making custom harnesses....... I figure if there's like 2.3L ZX5 or something, maybe I can just jack all the wiring + the ecu and whatever else I need, from it and just rip out all my current wiring and put it in place of that..... hard job maybe, but yeah. on the other hand though, I did get a quick response from Tom in another thread (answered just what I needed [thumb]) and he said that going from SPI to D23 wouldn't be too hard, but I'd need the wiring..

All 2.3 D-tecs ARE created equal.......

No, they really aren't.

First of all, you can't direct swap a duratec engine into a 99-04 focus because the duratec ecu will not drive the earlier style focus body components. You would have to re-wire the whole car.

As i was saing above. The D23 engines are not all the same. The D23 that's in the pzev and ST did not have variable valve timing and cable driven throttle bodies. The D23 that's in the Fusion and the Mazda3(non turbo) have variable valve timing and electronic throttle bodies. Even though it wouldn't work in the first place, im sure they have a completely different ECU and would take a lot to make it work properly with the focus.

^^^ ah.......yeah, wow that really sucks. See I'd heard someone was in the process of it, but just got fed up with making custom harnesses....... I figure if there's like 2.3L ZX5 or something, maybe I can just jack all the wiring + the ecu and whatever else I need, from it and just rip out all my current wiring and put it in place of that..... hard job maybe, but yeah. on the other hand though, I did get a quick response from Tom in another thread (answered just what I needed [thumb]) and he said that going from SPI to D23 wouldn't be too hard, but I'd need the wiring..

I was about ready to purchase EVERYTHING for her car ^(ncedillos)^^ so we could do the swap for incredibly cheap when a friend of mine told me what it would take to do it properly. He said some poor guy on FJ found out the hard way what a pain it is to do the swap, he said he wasn't even sure if the guy finished the project.

Honestly, if you feel comfortable rewiring your entire car, go for it. You would have a very original car.

And yes the D23 came in the ZX5, i have one. The D23 only came in the ZX5 in 03 and 04, it's the PZEV models, came standard in green states, and special order in non-green states. If you're not in a green state you might have a hard time finding one to strip. I had to drive from MI to NY to purchase my D23.

No, they really aren't.

First of all, you can't direct swap a duratec engine into a 99-04 focus because the duratec ecu will not drive the earlier style focus body components. You would have to re-wire the whole car.

As i was saing above. The D23 engines are not all the same. The D23 that's in the pzev and ST did not have variable valve timing and cable driven throttle bodies. The D23 that's in the Fusion and the Mazda3(non turbo) have variable valve timing and electronic throttle bodies. Even though it wouldn't work in the first place, im sure they have a completely different ECU and would take a lot to make it work properly with the focus.

Looks like you've done your homework. The D23 in the new fusion makes good power too I think it's something like 173hp but I can't remeber the torque spec but in a focus it would be sweet and with minor bolt-ons could be pretty quick. I don't think it would work though

Yes I wish it could have been done for me as I love my car too much to sell it lol. I would want 2.3 over anything. If you are able to then wow I would like to see a build thread.

The mounts don't bolt right up either, they have to be welded to the body. There's other stuff. If i were to be real serious about the swap, i'd do a lot of homework first.

well........let's put it this way, I'm going to two different colleges (well, I will be) in which one is 2nd best in the nation, and the other is the best [thumb] I think together we can figure out how to rewire a whole car. Call me crazy but that actually sounds pretty fun, and not as hard as I thought.....

but anyway, ehancock, would it be possible in any way to make a 2.3L ECU control the 2.3L fusion engine? (btw, he said *probably from a Fusion* so it could possibly be from a focus, I'd have to take a look, but I think it's the fusion.

basically what I want to do though, and it seems like HonHon wanted to do this at first (but he already has the newer focus/ wiring :P) is do the swap, but actually just find like a salvage 2.3 or something VIN Z I believe, and basically just rebuild all the parts, I've already been getting a list of performance parts and whatnot to put into the Duratec, then I also plan on going turbo, with most likely a DIY kit if possible.

I think I may still be in the dark when it comes to ECU's, I gotta do some research.

I was also wondering if it was possible to just use a 2.0L Dtec ECU and get it reflashed or tuned or something like that to work with the 2.3L and control the rest of the crap in my car. to be honest though, if it's an issue like not being able to control the power windows in the rear, it wouldn't matter cause they don't work now anyway, and I'd have to strip a lot of wiring to figure out why the rear isn't getting any power.

anything else I'll remember, lol. my main issue has now turned to the ECU and such....

The mounts don't bolt right up either, they have to be welded to the body. There's other stuff. If i were to be real serious about the swap, i'd do a lot of homework first.

Yeah I was aware of that, too...... arent the lower engine and transmission mounts the same? doesn't matter, I think I can make custom mounts......

more issues (yay!) I'm aware that the exhaust and intake manifolds have been reversed from front to back, will that pretty much mean I'd need custom exhaust work (I probably will anyway, though I LOVE my magnaflow stainless steel exhaust, I need to go 3" if I go turbo, just for the power.....

oh, and I'd almost had it all figured out with getting an SVT in there, but damn FJ for convincing me to go D23 (ha, at least the interior/exterior will still be SVT, with an 07+ SAP rear end conversion [thumb])

Honestly, i really dont know if you could use the Focus ECU with the Fusion D23. I would HIGHLY doubt that you could though, there are going to be extra sensors for the VCT so i think that would pose a problem.

Yeah I was aware of that, too...... arent the lower engine and transmission mounts the same? doesn't matter, I think I can make custom mounts......

more issues (yay!) I'm aware that the exhaust and intake manifolds have been reversed from front to back, will that pretty much mean I'd need custom exhaust work (I probably will anyway, though I LOVE my magnaflow stainless steel exhaust, I need to go 3" if I go turbo, just for the power.....

Yeah the rear mount is for sure the same, i believe the transmission mount is the same too.

No worries. The manifolds are swapped but you dont need to do any custom exhaust work. All of the exhausts bolt up at the same place after the engine, you just need the proper exhaust manifold.

AH......... ok then, cause I remember someone saying the exhaust was gonna be on the wrong side of the car so it won't mate up......

and you don't happen to know what kinda of MTX mates up to the Duratec, do you?

and of course, it just has to be the proper manifold for the turbo, that's all my issue is with that I guess

I was wondering, is there any possibility of engine compartment or engine blueprints? If anyone get what I mean. Also does the MTX75 just fit up to it? who has a manual Duratec? (btw, I suppose if any mods feel it is in a better place at the Duratec forum, please move it. lol)

bump, for the hell of it [hihi]

well.......this isn't too bad

Fits: 2003 FORD FOCUS
Description: Engine Assembly
2.3, A42, DOHC, 2.3 VIN Z, RG/TG
Condition: 60K
Quality: Good Quality - Low Mileage!
Warranty: 1-Year
Discount Price: $1,013.00 Buy Now
Stock Number: KAT53668
Location: Bakersfield, California 93307

damn.......and this too:

Fits: 2003 FORD FOCUS
Description: Transmission Assembly
153789-M.T., 2.3L (PZEV, VIN Z)
Condition: 36K
Quality: Premium Quality - Very Low Mileage!
Warranty: 1+1 Year
Discount Price: $668.00 Buy Now
Stock Number: KAD19065S
Location: Redding, California 96003

You know what?? I'm thinking the 06 2.3L Fusion's Duratec IS the same engine as the 03 04 2.3L PZEV models......and here's why, they both have the same VIN code of "Z" [:D]

oh and if I can't get the one from school, these newer D23's are cheaper.........

Fits: 2006 FORD FUSION
Description: Engine Assembly
2.3L (VIN Z)
Condition: 26K
Quality: Premium Quality - Very Low Mileage!
Warranty: 1+1 Year
Discount Price: $783.00 Buy Now
Stock Number: PF368606I
Location: Orlando, Florida 32805

No, they're NOT the same engine. The Fusion D23 is more similar to the D23 in the non turbo Mazda3. The Duratec uses an MTX-75 with a different bell housing than the zetec. I have read about people who have swapped the bell housings, but i have not done this myself. Something to consider is that the zetec mtx-75 has a higher final drive ratio than the mtx-75 that's in the pzev mtx-75. The mtx-75 that is mated with the ST has the same drive ratio as the 75 that's mated with the zetec. I forget what they are off the top of my head but i'll look it up for you.

The final drive ratio in the pzev mtx-75 is: 3.41
FDR in ST and Zetec mtx-75 is: 3.82

final drive ratio swaps should work in any of the focus mtx-75 transmissions, same with the LSDs.

ok lol......I just thought they were the same cause of the same VIN code. So it would most likely be getting an ST MTX then? or just find the PZEV (like the one I found earlier, I think) and do an fdr swap on that?

plus now I was thinking, thought it's like so effin expensive, I realized that if I'm not getting the SVT engine for 4,000 and have the possiblity of the fusion engine, I'm now thinking of an aftermarket ECU. any comments on that? I'm sure it could get rid of the pats situation, maybe. not sure how that works.

oh right, and the gauges, does the actual 05 gauge fit in place of the 02, but just doesn't have the same connection?

well, these are the specs as follows for the 2.3L 06 Fusion engine:


•
2,261 cc 2.3 liters in-line 4 front engine with 87.5 mm bore, 94 mm stroke, 9.7 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
•
Unleaded fuel 87
•
Fuel economy EPA highway (mpg): 31 and EPA city (mpg): 23
•
Multi-point injection fuel system
•
17.5 gallon main unleaded fuel tank
•
Power: 119 kW , 160 HP SAE @ 6,250 rpm; 156 ft lb , 212 Nm @ 4,250 rpm

And this, actually, from an 04 ZTS (so I'm guess it's either PZEV, or the ZTS came with 2.3L as well....) ALSO the ST.


-
2,260 cc 2.3 liters in-line 4 front engine with 87.4 mm bore, 94 mm stroke, 9.7 compression ratio, double overhead cam and four valves per cylinder
-
Unleaded fuel
-
Fuel economy EPA highway (mpg): 33 and EPA city (mpg): 25
-
Multi-point injection fuel system
-
14 gallon main unleaded fuel tank
-
Power: 110 kW , 148 HP SAE @ 5,500 rpm; 152 ft lb , 206 Nm @ 4,500 rpm

well........let's put it this way, I'm going to two different colleges (well, I will be) in which one is 2nd best in the nation, and the other is the best [thumb] I think together we can figure out how to rewire a whole car. Call me crazy but that actually sounds pretty fun, and not as hard as I thought.....

If you're going to 2 busy colleges, you won't have enough time to pull this off. I'm not trying to be any harsher than I need to be, but it will seriously eat up all your time. The last thing I want is for someone to have a mess in their garage that they don't know what to do with. The fact that you didn't even know there were multiple configurations for the 2.3 Duratec means that you'll be running into the same problem of confusion and then discovery over and over during the start of this project. Like the others have said, you have to know everything cold before you pick up a wrench. Then the unexpected things that pop up will be minor in scope.

If you're going to 2 busy colleges, you won't have enough time to pull this off. I'm not trying to be any harsher than I need to be, but it will seriously eat up all your time. The last thing I want is for someone to have a mess in their garage that they don't know what to do with. The fact that you didn't even know there were multiple configurations for the 2.3 Duratec means that you'll be running into the same problem of confusion and then discovery over and over during the start of this project. Like the others have said, you have to know everything cold before you pick up a wrench. Then the unexpected things that pop up will be minor in scope.

mmm yeah..... I don't know if I made any sense there, but I meant going to one first, graduating from there, then maybe going to another one after... but I absolutely agree, I'm still learning, and I don't wanna be stuck......... I was aware of the PZEV and ST engines, but I just found out the fusion was 2.3L as well........ appreciate it though, cause I really don't want to get stuck :P

anyway, the difference between the two seems to be a little bit of the bore and cc's are off, and besides that the two valve covers are different. I'm thinking I ought to just stay with finding a PZEV engine, and then maybe getting an open ECU and just using that to control everything

edit: oh yeah, and the Fusion has VVT

hehe, just a little messin around on Massive [thumb]

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Quantity Name Item number Unit price Amount
Eagle Forged Connecting Rods MCEN'8433 $ 345.00 $ 345.00


SuperTech Forged Aluminum Pistons MCEN'8443 $ 439.00 $ 439.00

Compression:
Bore:
Massive Speed Balance Shaft Delete Kit MAEN'8647 $ 34.99 $ 34.99


Crower Cams Crower Cams Duratec x Stage $ 399.95 $ 399.95

Grind:
Massive Speed Adjustable Cam Gears MCCM'9511.000 $ 229.00 $ 229.00

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SuperTech Valves MCCM'8668 $ 299.00 $ 299.00


SCE Titan ICS Hybrid Copper Head Gasket MCEN'8716 $ 94.49 $ 94.49


VF Engineering Lower Motor Mount MCMM'8471 $ 96.50 $ 96.50


VF Engineering Polyurethane/Billet Drivers Side Motor mount MCMM'8134 $ 135.00 $ 135.00


ARP Cylinder Head Studs MCHW'8637 $ 139.00 $ 139.00


ARP Duratec Main Studs MCHW'9146 $ 104.95 $ 104.95


Ford Racing SVT Euro Dark Argent Wheels MCWH'8805 $ 135.00 $ 540.00



Amount: $ 3,245.88

Total: $ 3,245.88

Save your money mike and do the SVT swap instead, it's going to way easier.

Save your money mike and do the SVT swap instead, it's going to way easier.

oddly enough it seems I'm coming out ahead with the D23...... except for wiring.

Might be cheaper, but not worth the hassle, and torn apart car (for a long time).

Might be cheaper, but not worth the hassle, and torn apart car (for a long time).

yeah that's true.....it'll be a bitch, but I'll pretty much be on campus anyway, and I'll probably just drive one of the shop beaters they have, if I need to go anywhere

yeah that's true.....it'll be a bitch, but I'll pretty much be on campus anyway, and I'll probably just drive one of the shop beaters they have, if I need to go anywhere

It's all good. Just secure your budget, come up with a complete plan, and execute. So far you've got some ideas, but you need to flesh everything out.

It's all good. Just secure your budget, come up with a complete plan, and execute. So far you've got some ideas, but you need to flesh everything out.

yeah, I really don't wanna do it if I can't. but if you've seen uh....Massive's car (I think) that has been wrecked, it's pretty much gonna look like that (and well, apparently now with a D23, so even more similar, except the interior is 00-04)

So back to the point, that's a pretty nice, modern looking car, right? why spend 24,000 on some impreza or something to get over 300hp and such? Sure, I honestly don't mind having shop struggles; on average, I usually stay an hour after shop has ended (last period) just last week I stayed for about three hours after, trying to get faster on the tire removal machine (old style [thumb]) got it at 44 seconds, gonna try for 30 tomorrow [thumb] (oops, that kinda went off track [hihi])

so anyway though, my point of the above paragraph is that I'm a mechanic and that's what I love to do, and don't care how long it takes me or how long I'm in the shop....I'd sleep in there if I could :B

and BTW, I'm not mad at all, if it seems that way LOL. I've just decided to really explain a little more about myself and, well, apparently my determination and level of commitment [thumb]

lol did I mention the fortune cookie that read "Speak less of your plans, you will get more of them done" and also the other one, "Be innovative, Take charge of new ideas" LOL freaky [paranoid]

Swapping out the wiring in the whole car is not that hard of a job. I have done it twice already, and takes only about 4 hours worth of work with proper tools. I should be doing a 2.3 dura swap in an 01 sedan soon, if all goes well. Can't be any harder than the SPI auto to Zetec manual swap I finished a few months back.

I have done it twice already, and takes only about 4 hours worth of work with proper tools..
What tools are involved?

^^^ an assortment of metric sockets, swivel, extentions, pliers, screwdrivers, mainly just the basics. Air tools sure help too.

well damn.........too bad you're in WI or I'd have you come here and help me lol. but wow what a relief to know it really wouldn't be as hard......

cause in all honesty, I plan on stripping the whole thing down, maybe even to the bare frame, and rebuilding it

this thing's gonna be an effin race car! [:D]