That's the word on the street according to autoblog. I kid you not, I am actually depressed. That was my car... This sucks big time![:(] [mecry] [bigcry]
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/08/has-cerberus-killed-the-viper/

oh damn...it's like chevy cancelling Corvette

I'm kind of wondering what the logic is behind that. Apparently they aren't trying to compete with chevy any more...unless they have something else up their sleeve. Hmmm.

wow that kinda sux!@
The 08 ACR viper is freekin bad

I blame the new CEO. I can't beleive he got the job after being at Home Depot.

um... wow, that is... erm..okay....

Awww that blows.

Actually, blame the Government.

Effective in 2010, there are new emissions standards that will be imposed along with a mandatory increase in fuel economy by 30%.

I am all about "being green", but the environmental lobby makes it a point by targeting performance cars and not the everyday car.

Performance cars, like the Viper and the Corvette (which is also on the chopping block for the same reason) represent less than 1% of the vehicles on the road today. The fact that they are capable of speeds close to 200 MPH makes them a luxury, not a necessity.

What the environmentalists conveniently overlook is the EFFICIENCY of these cars. They may consume more fuel (by comparison, but I go back to the 1% issue), but they burn it much cleaner.

The frightening and AWESOME testament to the engineering is the fact that the exhaust gasses produced are actually CLEANER than the air the engine breathes in.

Of course, no one ever mentions that except the manufacturers and they don't have the environment in mind. Only interested in making a buck... [rolleyes]

Actually, blame the Government.

Effective in 2010, there are new emissions standards that will be imposed along with a mandatory increase in fuel economy by 30%.

I am all about "being green", but the environmental lobby makes it a point by targeting performance cars and not the everyday car.

Performance cars, like the Viper and the Corvette (which is also on the chopping block for the same reason) represent less than 1% of the vehicles on the road today. The fact that they are capable of speeds close to 200 MPH makes them a luxury, not a necessity.

What the environmentalists conveniently overlook is the EFFICIENCY of these cars. They may consume more fuel (by comparison, but I go back to the 1% issue), but they burn it much cleaner.

The frightening and AWESOME testament to the engineering is the fact that the exhaust gasses produced are actually CLEANER than the air the engine breathes in.

Of course, no one ever mentions that except the manufacturers and they don't have the environment in mind. Only interested in making a buck... [rolleyes]

Well said my friend.

It's partly the government, but also as you read in the article it's an expensive car for them to build. Chrysler was not in very good financial condition when Cerebus took over, so you knew the cost cutting would begin. I can't say I blame them for starting with the Viper, it was obviously the logical starting point. But Chrysler otherwise is just bottom of the barrel as far as domestic products go. Even though I have a Dodge Dakota R/T 2006 model, this is the last Chrysler product I will ever buy. There's evidence of huge cost cutting in this truck, from the plasticky cheap interior to the wheel bearings and stabilizer links that went bad at 8000 miles. But every manufacturer is cutting costs, Chrylser just isn't very good at it. Analysts predict that in the next 10 years ONE of the big 3 will no longer remain, and I say it will be Chrysler.

Actually, blame the Government.

Effective in 2010, there are new emissions standards that will be imposed along with a mandatory increase in fuel economy by 30%.

I am all about "being green", but the environmental lobby makes it a point by targeting performance cars and not the everyday car.

Performance cars, like the Viper and the Corvette (which is also on the chopping block for the same reason) represent less than 1% of the vehicles on the road today. The fact that they are capable of speeds close to 200 MPH makes them a luxury, not a necessity.

What the environmentalists conveniently overlook is the EFFICIENCY of these cars. They may consume more fuel (by comparison, but I go back to the 1% issue), but they burn it much cleaner.

The frightening and AWESOME testament to the engineering is the fact that the exhaust gasses produced are actually CLEANER than the air the engine breathes in.

Of course, no one ever mentions that except the manufacturers and they don't have the environment in mind. Only interested in making a buck... [rolleyes]

I'm all about being green also, but with a twist. Instead of spending all this time and money making stupid government regulations for things that consume oil, why don't we focus that time and money into different technology? All this ethanol stupidity has done has increased the cost of everything associated with it. Corn has increased to the point that it's affecting farmers. Any dairy products prices have shot up because it takes more money to feed the cows. And even using all this ethanol, the price of gasoline hasn't dropped one bit. HOW IS THIS USEFUL AT ALL?

Being green has other benefits besides helping the environment. Hydrogen for example is a plentiful energy source. Oil won't last forever and if we wait too long to develop this other technology, either we'll run out or we'll be paying incredibly high gas prices ie $30 or more per gallon. If you think that seems impossible, Europe already pays $10/gallon.

well if the US would lift it's ridiculously high tariffs of Brazilian ethanol...
The cane fields in brazil produce ethanol at a far more efficent rate. The price of foodstuffs is not the fault of ethanol production, its the fault of georgie and his oil tycoon friends...

Sucks about the viper. They could save the viper if they made a low cost version to compete with the corvette...like one thats half the price it is now with less horsepower but an efficient engine. I mean look at the vette, the ls2/ls3 is a great engine and considering what it is, it gets pretty damn good gas mileage..better then most suvs and even similar to some cars. Considering, the vette is not that big of a gas guzzler. By 2020 if theres no major change in the automotive world of how they make big horsepower but with great gas mileage...the corvette won't be the only car being killed off.

On the note of overcoming the oil crisis, one word.........Tesla!!! Yes, the roadster is 90k, but this little hot speed demon is the start of the future...hopefully. By the end of this year tesla hopes to start building its sedan model, which will be priced like a 5 series, 40k-70k. If people have brains and they advertise and become big enough, then hopefully people will buy. And once they are making a profit, they can start making other cars that are far cheaper and that everyone can own.

I'm all about being green also, but with a twist. Instead of spending all this time and money making stupid government regulations for things that consume oil, why don't we focus that time and money into different technology? All this ethanol stupidity has done has increased the cost of everything associated with it. Corn has increased to the point that it's affecting farmers. Any dairy products prices have shot up because it takes more money to feed the cows. And even using all this ethanol, the price of gasoline hasn't dropped one bit. HOW IS THIS USEFUL AT ALL?

Being green has other benefits besides helping the environment. Hydrogen for example is a plentiful energy source. Oil won't last forever and if we wait too long to develop this other technology, either we'll run out or we'll be paying incredibly high gas prices ie $30 or more per gallon. If you think that seems impossible, Europe already pays $10/gallon.

Ill have to agree,,, I dont know if you have heard but pretty soon incondesant (sp?) bulbs will be outlawed to so we can be more green... which doesnt make any sense... My bro works for the power company and he said they will still run the same amount of power they did before

well if the US would lift it's ridiculously high tariffs of Brazilian ethanol...
The cane fields in brazil produce ethanol at a far more efficent rate. The price of foodstuffs is not the fault of ethanol production, its the fault of georgie and his oil tycoon friends...

Is there anything Bush isn't responsible for?[dunno] Seriously though, it's just a fact that since corn has gone up and feed costs so much more, the price of a lot of foods has risen. That doesn't have anything to do with the oil companies or Bush.

If tariffs are high, that forces America to produce more of it's own products because its cheaper and creates jobs, which boosts our economy. Let us drill for oil in the frozen desolate tundra (where nothing lives) that the environmentalists are hell bent on preserving, while we are developing these alternate sources of energy/ fuel. We will be completely independant of foreign oil from the middle east. Let us build refineries (which hasn't been done in over 30 years despite our consumption more than doubling). The middle east doesn't provide as much fuel to us as everyone thinks.

My whole thing is, that it's a shame we are having to make all these sacrifices when the root problem isn't getting addressed. IF THIS IS THE CAUSE FOR THE VIPER GOING AWAY, then it's just sad. Making these stupid regulations for fuel efficiency is like putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. We are the most technologically advanced nation in the world, and we are still using the same basic concept for engines that was developed 100 years ago. Lets fight to keep our muscle cars alive until we can develop this other technology. Look at the new tesla car that runs off of laptop batteries.

Actually, blame the Government.

Effective in 2010, there are new emissions standards that will be imposed along with a mandatory increase in fuel economy by 30%.

]

I thought that was 2K20 not 2K10.I can imagine it now a diesel COrvette. Those stupid fluorescent lights have mercury in them btw, so don't break one

OMG, I don't know where to start.

Ok, I agree with all of you. This is what I think though. All of the problems we are facing each center around one thing, the economy. We want to develop hydrogen technology but how can we be on top of that industry and it's national implementation when a.) our infrastructure is not ready to be overhauled and b.) how do i say this? We aren't the most technologically advanced nation anymore? If anyone is I'd say it's Japan, possibly South Korea. SO... all this is connected in my mind as follows. Eh, I've been thinking of how to properly write this and if i had enough time i could but I can't cause i'm short on it atm. The point is no one has any money, our students aren't getting very good educations, foreign countries are testing higher, ergo, smarter people to enter the work force. OUR college kids, myself included, can't find very good jobs atm. Everybody's broke. How can we overhaul our infrastructure if we can't get ourselves a decent job in most places, it's a vicious cycle of negativity, no money begetting "no money", politics, and technological superiority. It makes sense in my head but it's bit difficult to get on paper write now so I'm going to shut up. lol. I just think that the best case scenario for Chrysler is that they end up getting sold again, bought by someone who actually cares, revamped, and then they eventually end up reviving the viper name plate but it might not have the original power plant. I mean, the idea of v8's, 10's, etc. going the way of the dinosaur is slightly rattling and the thought that one day soon cars like the viper and even the corvette could become novelty items is just crazy. I never thought I'd see it. Sure I thought that eventually hybrid sports cars would rule the scene but not yet... Sorta a type of future shock. All I know is that it seems as though we are in an "upheaval" period socially, technologically, and economically and it is ALL connected. Eventually, and hopefully soon, it will all settle down and equalize. It's just bigger than it used to be because everything is connected mostly on a global level now. Once it all settles, maybe say around 2010-2015, things like high powered sports hybrids will begin to become common place and the "old" type of sports cars will slowly become relics of a dying social perspective and era. Maybe. I don't know, I'm just writing what I feel and I gotta go study. If this sounds like a crazy bunch of jumbled ideas, it's cause it is. It all makes so much more sense in my mind. Meld with me, dive into my cyberbrain and experience my consciousness. There, words are not needed and all is understood as is should be. Yea....... they call me space, cause I'm out there. Peace. P.S. GITS RULES! Oh, and our lil foci's will never go away. If anything all this is just putting more emphasis on small cars... so yea, duh right? Ah! I G2G. *Spazz's out and dies.......

As another poster mentioned earlier, if Chrysler would stop producing crappy automobiles, maybe they wouldn't be in the situation they are in. Look at their core, bread and butter product - most of that junk I would venture to say none of us would even consider when shopping for a new car. That's Chrysler's problem. Even an infusion of Mercedes technology into vehicles like the Pacifica and the Crossfire couldn't help the company. What they ought to do is cancel a bunch of the dumb, redundant vehicles and concentrate on a small core of vehicles, and make those vehicles better. But if cancelling the Viper frees up funding to make things better, that's the way the cookie crumbles. It's not like the car didn't have a good run, it's lasted longer than I think anyone really expected it to last.

There was word that Cerebus or whoever owns chrysler now was thinking about buying jaguar, volvo and land rover. And then some chinese company was saying they were thinking about it too. I was about to cry.......please god let this not happen, the companies would be destroyed. Plus the new jags look incredibal and the jag "handshake" in the new XF is pretty damn cool. Id hate to see it plagued buy chrysler interiors or buy the chinese. Jags a british car...and thats it. I was worried something similar would happen to Aston Martin but they lucked out and are still great like before.

i dont understand them doing that what their new flagship car gonna be now???

Everybody start sending letters to your Reps and Congressmen. Get active. The Lightbulbs, the 'green issues' honestly... We are a free contry, why will they not allow us to purchase our choice of lightbulb? We are a free market arn't we??? The government should not be allowed to have the power to tell us what we can buy (in stores) especially when it comes to household items, our cars, our clothes etc etc.

Get involved FocusFanatics.

i dont understand them doing that what their new flagship car gonna be now???

Probably the steamer I just flushed. They'll find it and copy it...[ohcrap]

Everybody start sending letters to your Reps and Congressmen. Get active. The Lightbulbs, the 'green issues' honestly... We are a free contry, why will they not allow us to purchase our choice of lightbulb? We are a free market arn't we??? The government should not be allowed to have the power to tell us what we can buy (in stores) especially when it comes to household items, our cars, our clothes etc etc.

Get involved FocusFanatics.

I'm with you on this. I've already sent congressman and senators letters, both good and bad. I've gotten no responses. I just hope they actually read them...something tells me they didn't.

the biggest injustice isnt the fact that they are imposing these legislations on car companies, the real problem is they are NOT imposing similar legislation of industrial and commercial industries which account for a much larger percentage of the total carbon output to the atmosphere. And thats because there is nothing to gain by that. By increasing fuel prices and imposing these legislations, they make cars more expensive to make and therefore buy. So in order not to cost the corporate sector money, the cost is trickled down to the car buyer who now has to pay more money for a basic people mover.

i dont understand them doing that what their new flagship car gonna be now???

Well the Viper is still going to be around until 2010 or 2011 according to the article... but they are about to release the new Challenger. It's no Viper but it's still a pretty hot car. At least, that is, unless they cancel that car too in order to have more money to make another version of the Caliber/Compass/Patriot.

the biggest injustice isnt the fact that they are imposing these legislations on car companies, the real problem is they are NOT imposing similar legislation of industrial and commercial industries which account for a much larger percentage of the total carbon output to the atmosphere. And thats because there is nothing to gain by that. By increasing fuel prices and imposing these legislations, they make cars more expensive to make and therefore buy. So in order not to cost the corporate sector money, the cost is trickled down to the car buyer who now has to pay more money for a basic people mover.

If they impose these legislations on big Industry, who do you think is going to pay for it? Not the companies. They won't just say "got me" and pay it. They will just trickle it down to the consumer as well.

I'm glad as was stated before that companies are releasing muscle cars still like the new Challenger. They are American icons. That separates us from the overseas vehicles/ supercars. I like the Viper, as well as the Corvette, Ford GT, Mustang, Camaro, Charger. I hope Dodge has something else up their sleeve. It seems that cars are taking some time off for redesigns/reengineering, and come back to blow people away.

I thought that was 2K20 not 2K10.I can imagine it now a diesel COrvette. Those stupid fluorescent lights have mercury in them btw, so don't break one

Now that I think about it, 2020 sounds right.

Good catch!

If they impose these legislations on big Industry, who do you think is going to pay for it? Not the companies. They won't just say "got me" and pay it. They will just trickle it down to the consumer as well.

I'm glad as was stated before that companies are releasing muscle cars still like the new Challenger. They are American icons. That separates us from the overseas vehicles/ supercars. I like the Viper, as well as the Corvette, Ford GT, Mustang, Camaro, Charger. I hope Dodge has something else up their sleeve. It seems that cars are taking some time off for redesigns/reengineering, and come back to blow people away.

You know, I bet that when they canceled the challenger a bunch of people freaked as well. Now it's back though so i suppose the same could be true for this situation. One day.... one..... day........[bath]

I enjoyed my '99 GTS!!!

It was a freak of nature...

448hp and 498pft at the wheels uncorrected.

436hp and 484pft SAE corrected.

This car pretty much ruined me... [screwy]

Geeez what 7 years and a nasty divorce will do to a man!

LOL

Dodge doesn't wanna put the money they have to into the viper anymore. They would rather put econ models and stuff. Sad, future collectors car?

You know, I bet that when they canceled the challenger a bunch of people freaked as well. Now it's back though so i suppose the same could be true for this situation. One day.... one..... day........[bath]

based on how long it took the Challenger to come back, I might be able to afford the Viper by then!

Wow.. I just found this thread.. That sucks about the viper! Im all for the challenger though hehe
With all the talk about lightbulbs.. do the newer bulbs have a 3-way type? I havent been able to find any..

They might be cancelling more cars then just the viper...theres an article about it in the latest issue of motortrend(CTS Coupe on cover).

^^^ Real quick. I heard through aol news that dodge might be getting phased out all together. It said that they will sell the dodge models under chrysler. I dont know if anyone heard this but me but check it out. I think it sucks.

Oh No it's the 70's!!!!!!!!!!!

^^^ Real quick. I heard through aol news that dodge might be getting phased out all together. It said that they will sell the dodge models under chrysler. I dont know if anyone heard this but me but check it out. I think it sucks.

If they do that I will never even consider buying anything from Chrysler, ever![scream]

oh damn...it's like chevy cancelling Corvette


no its not.

the viper...circa 1992..

the vette...circa 1950's

try again my friend.

who was seriously surprised by this. car cant compete. the vette is cheaper and outperforms in EVERY way.

who was seriously surprised by this. car cant compete. the vette is cheaper and outperforms in EVERY way.
This is true! Id prefer a Z06 over one any day

^^^ Real quick. I heard through aol news that dodge might be getting phased out all together. It said that they will sell the dodge models under chrysler. I dont know if anyone heard this but me but check it out. I think it sucks.

Ya I dont think that would work...
"introducing the new Chrysler Ram, Dakota, and Charger!!" "uhh WTF MAN!!"
If anything they should phase out freakin CHRYSLER!!

no its not.

the viper...circa 1992..

the vette...circa 1950's

try again my friend.

who was seriously surprised by this. car cant compete. the vette is cheaper and outperforms in EVERY way.

That is a good point. My mom is a Vette fanatic and we've gone back and forth about it many times. I love the viper and was really hoping that it could make 50 years at least, but the truth is it's not the same kind of car. Don't get me wrong, it is a sports car, duh, but I can't go out and find a decent used Viper for a fair amount of money. I found one on ebay once that was intact but the frame was bent and they wanted only 12,000 for it. There something else wrong with it too, but it would have cost a ton to fix it and I think that's were the two cars really begin to differ. That and the fact that the early vipers are not every day drivers, vettes on the other hand are. Now the new vipers, they are more refined but still have the same brutal kick, kinda lost the sleekness though... I miss that. There's a guy here in tiny bastrop, La who has a Viper, a black 98 rt10 just sitting on his lot under a cheap tin roof car port. I drive past it every day and it just sits there. Been there for more than a month now. I feel like I want to rescue it somehow... I deserve it more, because I would drive it more... if I could afford the car, the upkeep, and the gas. If it was a vette, well then I'd just have to buy one and drive it. popcorn![popcorn]

This is true! Id prefer a Z06 over one any day



Ya I dont think that would work...
"introducing the new Chrysler Ram, Dakota, and Charger!!" "uhh WTF MAN!!"
If anything they should phase out freakin CHRYSLER!!

Seriously....that would be so stupid. Chrysler should just be killed, cause honestly they are suppose to be the sorta premium brand right? Yet they still have terrible quality, interiors full of plastic and horrible looking cars. Just about the only good thing to come outta these brands in the past few years was the 300, which by now is starting to phase out and becoming boring and prehestoric. It won't happen anyway, they just came out with the challenger...so what they going to do kill dodge...not to mention they are coming out with a new Ram. What is happening is all the dealerships are starting to become one...kinda like what GM was doing with the GMC/Pontiac/Buick dealerships.

Maybe they should bring back the K car...lol.

It won't happen anyway, they just came out with the challenger...so what they going to do kill dodge...

The Plymouth Prowler was only a few years old and the PT Cruiser was intended to be a Plymouth, and at the last minute DaimlerChrysler axed the Plymouth brand. Both the Prowler and the PT Cruiser were supposed to be the first products of a new series of vehicles that would have a Plymouth "look" but obviously that got canned.

What I am getting at is they could easily dump the Dodge name, just as easily as they let Plymouth slip away.

PROWLER OMG loved that car btw, my dad had a 98 and loved it, then hard times hit and had to buy a jeep, now he sold it and bought his ass a new 911. but yeah i so wish plymouth hadnt been canned only for that car, it turned heads wherever it went

PROWLER OMG loved that car btw, my dad had a 98 and loved it, then hard times hit and had to buy a jeep, now he sold it and bought his ass a new 911. but yeah i so wish plymouth hadnt been canned only for that car, it turned heads wherever it went

yea guy in town, maybe the same one who owns the viper, has one. Very nice. I always did like them.

no its not.

the viper...circa 1992..

the vette...circa 1950's

try again my friend.

who was seriously surprised by this. car cant compete. the vette is cheaper and outperforms in EVERY way.

uh no, the 08 viper outperforms the zo6 in ever way. the zr1 will be closer in speed to the viper than the zo6 is, and the zr1 is more expensive than the viper.

the ZR1 will destroy the viper

Really, this isn't all that bad. Yeah, the Viper is going...but really, its just a glorified drag car. And that's ALL its ever been good at...going REALLY fast in a straight line. Vipers arn't exactly the best cornering cars around, unlike Vettes which can go fast AND turn.

Don't just blame the government people..
1.) the Viper has a very low profit margin, and since dodge is still a business, thats a very important factor
2.) about CF lightbulbs - yes they have mercury and have to be disposed of properly (so do regular fluerecent lamps), yes there are three way versions available, LED style lights are the next step, but currently they cost a lot to produce and therefore a lot to buy
3.) why did you think Ford cancelled the SVT focus? they couldnt make enough profit on it to continue production.
4.) as for Dodge as a company... they are still using OHV V-8's in thier vehicles... horrible inneficient (when compared to an OHC model)
5.) Ethanol - there are much more efficient methods than corn to produce ethanol; the problem is that we (US) have been producing ethanol from corn (and more recently Soy beans) for a long time, since the demand was low, this was an acceptable souce; however since demand has increased without the implimentation of newer non-food crop related generation technology (algae is a more recent source that does not affect food crops or crop land) and since the government offers subsidies to corn growers that use the corn for ethanol production, more producers have decided to devote larger portions of thier crops to fuel production (since it makes them a larger profit). So what does all this mean?
Ethanol and Biodiesel are the future fuels; they can be more easily implimented into our current inferstructure than switching over to an all electric platform (wonder to yourself where that electricity would come from) it will not happen over night, it will take several years, EVENTUALLY ethanol & biodiesel will become economically viable, but there are many factors to consider, and as with all technology there is a cost associated; 20 years ago was the use of aluminum, composites, or plastics in cars commonplace? NO it took time for manufacturing processes to be refined to the point where it was economically viable, but now every car in production in the US (and most other countries) makes use of at least two if not all three. Americans need to give up on thier SUV's & 1 ton pickups as family vehicles, you can cram just as many people into a minivan or station wagon getting way better than 8-15mpg. If you want to own something that large for daily use you should be prepared to pay additional fees if you are using it for a purpose other than what it is intended for (hauling large loads).
this goes for sports car too - if you want it for anything outside of a track car, be prepared to pay out the nose (and other holes) for it.
as for the lightbulb comment earlier about being in a free country, you have the right to use an incandecent bulb if you want to, but be prepared to pay a premium on your electric bill, because there is an economically viable alternative available that consumes much less electricity while producing the same lumen output, that lasts a heck of a lot longer, yes it has mercury in it, which requires you to bring it to a transfer station (dump, landfill etc.) and put it in a special bin rather than throw it in your garbage, but you have to do that with old motor oil and coolant as well, are you going to go get a horse or bicycle so you don't have to deal with all that fuss from your automobile? I doubt it.
hey while were at it, lets all go buy pre 70's V-8 powered full frame automobiles with 4speed transmissions and make sure there are no catalytic converters or smog pumps on them.
if you don't like the US or its governement then get the hell out, there are plenty of other countries out there, where you don't have to worry about stuff like this.

Don't just blame the government people..
1.) the Viper has a very low profit margin, and since dodge is still a business, thats a very important factor
2.) about CF lightbulbs - yes they have mercury and have to be disposed of properly (so do regular fluerecent lamps), yes there are three way versions available, LED style lights are the next step, but currently they cost a lot to produce and therefore a lot to buy
3.) why did you think Ford cancelled the SVT focus? they couldnt make enough profit on it to continue production.
4.) as for Dodge as a company... they are still using OHV V-8's in thier vehicles... horrible inneficient (when compared to an OHC model)
5.) Ethanol - there are much more efficient methods than corn to produce ethanol; the problem is that we (US) have been producing ethanol from corn (and more recently Soy beans) for a long time, since the demand was low, this was an acceptable souce; however since demand has increased without the implimentation of newer non-food crop related generation technology (algae is a more recent source that does not affect food crops or crop land) and since the government offers subsidies to corn growers that use the corn for ethanol production, more producers have decided to devote larger portions of thier crops to fuel production (since it makes them a larger profit). So what does all this mean?
Ethanol and Biodiesel are the future fuels; they can be more easily implimented into our current inferstructure than switching over to an all electric platform (wonder to yourself where that electricity would come from) it will not happen over night, it will take several years, EVENTUALLY ethanol & biodiesel will become economically viable, but there are many factors to consider, and as with all technology there is a cost associated; 20 years ago was the use of aluminum, composites, or plastics in cars commonplace? NO it took time for manufacturing processes to be refined to the point where it was economically viable, but now every car in production in the US (and most other countries) makes use of at least two if not all three. Americans need to give up on thier SUV's & 1 ton pickups as family vehicles, you can cram just as many people into a minivan or station wagon getting way better than 8-15mpg. If you want to own something that large for daily use you should be prepared to pay additional fees if you are using it for a purpose other than what it is intended for (hauling large loads).
this goes for sports car too - if you want it for anything outside of a track car, be prepared to pay out the nose (and other holes) for it.
as for the lightbulb comment earlier about being in a free country, you have the right to use an incandecent bulb if you want to, but be prepared to pay a premium on your electric bill, because there is an economically viable alternative available that consumes much less electricity while producing the same lumen output, that lasts a heck of a lot longer, yes it has mercury in it, which requires you to bring it to a transfer station (dump, landfill etc.) and put it in a special bin rather than throw it in your garbage, but you have to do that with old motor oil and coolant as well, are you going to go get a horse or bicycle so you don't have to deal with all that fuss from your automobile? I doubt it.
hey while were at it, lets all go buy pre 70's V-8 powered full frame automobiles with 4speed transmissions and make sure there are no catalytic converters or smog pumps on them.
if you don't like the US or its governement then get the hell out, there are plenty of other countries out there, where you don't have to worry about stuff like this.

Yea.... anyway. I agree with what you said in regards to getting things moving in a direction away from severe pollution and "wasteful" products like SUV's but don't even go there with the "get the hell out" thing as far as the government goes. The one thing this stupid country of ours is supposed to be good at is making it so that we can all have a reasonably sane opinion of things and NOT have to get the heck out. There are other places to go... this is true, but I'm not going to leave... I don't want to, and unless I deem something necessary, from a logical, coherent, and sane perspective, I'm not doing anything and if you try to make me I WILL fight you tooth and nail about it right to the end. So let's please not bring that stuff into this conversation, I don't enjoy it. I don't like a lot of our governments policies, "leaders" etc. (be what you think your leader should be), but it is (quite unfortunately) one of, if not the best, democracy I've seen so far. Believe me, we could do much better, but short of me abandoning society or destroying the entire world, there isn't any other way I could be much more free... try taking that away from me... don't. Look up some of my other threads... I don't handle excessive, pathetic, red tape, foolish, pointless, nonsensical rules very well. It's a wonder I'm not in a mental hospital... again. lol. Really though, let's just keep this on topic and about the Viper. Yes, times are changing, and currently very rapidly, but the Viper came from a different time! So it should be celebrated for what it is and what it was built for, cause it does it well imho. Sports cars are always going to be around, no matter what. Seen mad max? The world could end, still gonna have fast cars. The form and method of delivery is all that will change. I see the future ultimately to be all electric as far as drive train goes and the power to come from hydrogen (read like 30-50 years from now). So that makes biofuel, at best, a temporary step up. I think biofuel is equivalent to blu-ray. It's only going to be around until digital downloading/streaming of movies becomes ubiquitous and mainstream(which of course will only happen when we have fast enough internet everywhere, so you could look at the as equivalent to us waiting to have the hydrogen infrastructure) which by what I just wrote could be a while. The point is we should just support the cleanest most efficient yet still economical solution until we can find something that is really great like hydrogen or better. So there. Oh and it's funny you mentioned suvs. I was thinking today when I saw this giant ford go by how we'll always need vehicles that size but with clean propulsion systems. I started to think of/ try to design a four wheel drive truck as high as the old broncos but with no gas engine at all, maybe just straight electric and powered off of some sort of fuel cell with enough power to climb a mountain and stuff, kinda like the wort hog just taller. Anyway wasn't trying to harsh on ya or anything, I think you're right cept I can't believe they still make things with mercury... just seems kinda stupid. Anyway, this is too long and I really gotta get to work. Peace. SPACE

hey while were at it, lets all go buy pre 70's V-8 powered full frame automobiles with 4speed transmissions and make sure there are no catalytic converters or smog pumps on them.

Sounds good to me.

BTW I don't think that Ford cancelled the SVTF because they were failing to make a profit from it, I don't think Ford makes much if any profit from any model of Focus. The Focus mainly benefits Ford as a way to improve their CAFE numbers, offsetting the poor numbers of the trucks and SUVs.

spacegravity4rme I agree with you on several points, understand I am not saying that vehicles don't have thier place, quite contrarily to that, I feel large vehicles do have thier place, but when people purchase a large vehicle say and escalade or expedition to haul themselves to work each day, they should be willing to handle the concequences i.e. high fuel and maintenance cost. I agree that full electric is the in the distant future (20yrs+/- until it could be mainstreamed) and that ethanol and biodiesel are stepping stones in the process (much like hybrids). Say the goal is to get manufacturers and consumers to switch over to electric cars powered cars, the most logical steps would be to a.) hybridize thier current models & switch thier fuels to cleaner burning fuels (i.e. the 10% ethanol that is now in our gasoline). here is the process in a simple step by step:
gasoline->E10->E85->E100->hybrid->electric
diesel->B20->B100->hybrid B100/electric->electric
current hybrid->B100/E100 hyrid->electric
I broke it out into three portions (diesel, gasoline, hybrid) for simplicity sake, since a current hybrid will not accept E100, and the hybrid system currently used, is different than the hybrid system used in diesel applications. (maybe we should start an alternative fuels thread..)
as for canceling the SVT focus - yes the CAFE standards were also a part of the reasoning, but seriously there aren't many moves in the auto industry that dont have something to do with CAFE standards...
Back to the topic at hand (astalavista Viper) If i had the money to purchase such a car (Viper, Corvett Z06, Porsche etc.) yeah I would probably buy something to that affect, however I understand that they come with much higher maintenence, insurance, and opperational costs, one of the reasons I drive an SVT focus - when i run the numbers, it works out that it is a car i can enjoy on the weekends, drive to work all week, and afford. I still own a 1966 Mustang, if i still drove that thing every day (100 miles round trip) the fuel cost alone would be astronomical (not to mention insurance and parts).
I still feel that Dodge is making a good move by cancelling this car, they can concentrate more on improving thier other cars and getting the company out of the toilet.
Ford still makes the Mustang because they can make decent profit off of it, and it doesnt have any real domestic competition; would I be upset if it were gone? yeah I would, but if it was the difference between not being able to buy a mustang in 2012 or not being able to buy a Ford, or get one serviced in 2012 (even though I don't get mine serviced at Ford, other people do) I think the choice is Clear.
Chevy still makes the Corvette for the exact same reasons, and on top of that its the most "bang for the buck" you can buy.
So I say well Viper you had a good run, but eventually all things must come to an end, but cheer up, you could pull a Camaro in a few years....then a few more years after that when you actually make it back on the scene.

Hey spacegravity, I pm'ed ya earlier this week. I was just excited to actually see someone on here from Monroe as well. Did not mean to stray off-topic. I do have to say I am a fan of the Viper but at the same time I am suprised it has lasted as long as it did. Dodge/Chrysler is such a screwed up company.

Really, this isn't all that bad. Yeah, the Viper is going...but really, its just a glorified drag car. And that's ALL its ever been good at...going REALLY fast in a straight line. Vipers arn't exactly the best cornering cars around, unlike Vettes which can go fast AND turn.

Ummm .. did you utterly miss the Viper GTS-R winning craploads of races on highly technical tracks? It was literally the same GTS that you could buy off the dealer lot, just the mods done necessary to engage in the various racing leagues. You can absolutely buy a Viper GTS, then mod it to match the exact performance of the GTS-R race cars.

Viper wins :

Race wins

* 24 Hours of Le Mans - 1998, 1999, 2000
* 24 Hours Nürburgring - 1999, 2001, 2002
* Rolex 24 at Daytona - 2000
* 12 Hours of Sebring - 2000
* Petit Le Mans - 1999
* 1000km Fuji - 2001
* Mil Milhas Brasileires - 2004

Series championships

* FIA GT Championship - 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002
* American Le Mans Series - 1999, 2000
* FFSA GT Championship - 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005
* Belcar - 2002, 2003, 2004
* Italian GT - 2003, 2004

^^^ These are not amateur races, these are deadly serious professional races.

The Viper gets a bad rap on handling because it's god damned difficult for amateur drivers (basically every single person on this board, including me), who've never taken 500-1000hp race cars and raced against the best in the world, pushing the cars to their limits ... to be able to properly control the ridiculous amount of torque and grip that the Viper gives you.

Ditto for the Vettes. In the hands of experts, either the Vette or Viper will chew up technical tracks like nobody's business. But they are expert vehicles at the limit, very very unforgiving, and you can n00b yourself in them really easily if you're not truly ready.

well i aint gonna cry about it cause i cant afford one anyways

Actually, the new vette is one of the easier cars to drive fast. I've heard its very forgiving and just begs for more. Viper actually has tons of grip and can handle very well, just like someone said, you gotta know how to drive a car like that to be able to drive it correctly.

Actually, the new vette is one of the easier cars to drive fast. I've heard its very forgiving and just begs for more. Viper actually has tons of grip and can handle very well, just like someone said, you gotta know how to drive a car like that to be able to drive it correctly.

The Vettes do keep getting more forgiving, especially the leap from C4 to C5. C5 to the lighter C6 makes it even better.

The point I was making, is that with cars like the 505HP Z06 being RWD and under 3k lbs, it's really really easy to have it get out from under you, particularly if you have the traction control disabled. Experts can make it do insane things, but amateurs might get themselves wrapped around a tree or acquainted with a guardrail if they try to find the limits. Essentially, everything is gravy until you find the limit, then you're toast.

Now, Vettes are commonly available in automatic form, and are driven by a largely older and more relaxed crowd, so their reputation as dangerous cars isn't what it could be if more people pushed them. The Viper doesn't really come in a weak version, they're all pretty much ball-busters from the get-go.

Cars that can't handle half as well get good marks on handling, because their limits are low and easy to detect, but the Viper and Vette are capable of astonishing feats, they're just only achievable by very very experienced and skilled drivers. I think the GT-R is the counterpoint to that, it's apparently so easy to drive that it's a great track car for people who don't want to have to work as hard as the Vette/Viper/911 crowd to reach those awesome times.

In short :

GT-R on a technical course vs. a GTS with a perfect driver in each car = maybe a slight win either way.

GT-R on a technical course vs. a GTS with average drivers in each car = massive win by the GT-R, possibly dead GTS driver :)

if you think the corvette and viper are bad at the rear end getting away from you, try driving an older porsche... I have, and once the rear end starts to make a horizontal move, its pretty much all over, you can wave at it as it passes you....

if you think the corvette and viper are bad at the rear end getting away from you, try driving an older porsche... I have, and once the rear end starts to make a horizontal move, its pretty much all over, you can wave at it as it passes you....

lol yeah :) I dated a girl one time who's dad had an old 70's 911, and an 80s 911 Turbo. Either of them were a pretty big handful, the turbo especially. I can't imagine pushing one of them really hard without considerable practice time, and even then, it'd be scary :)

that sucks!! i cant believe they would do that!!!

I think you're all right. I still really want a viper though. Once I graduate and I get a good job I MIGHT get one. You can find some pretty good ones on ebay for about 26-9k from dealers with financing! lol. So ya never know. That or I'd like a new focus, the new camaro, or the venture one(really looking forward to that one). Yesterday I was thinking how great it'd be, like in the future, to get a viper and overhaul it with a really powerful hydrogen fuel cell system. Course, that's a major pipe dream right now, might wanna think about that one again in 2040. We'll see.