"No one does sport hatches like VW" (aka the GTI).

What do yall think?

For the money the focus rules. i dont like vw there parts are expensive. um the best hatch imo out today would be the ms3. but for 12,000 i couldnt have gotten a better hatch.

[gunfire] VW

I like the VW's alot, but I have discovered that when cornering, it really is a drivers race.

Mouse

I'd take a MS3 over a GTi. Ford had it right when the had the SVT, but those days are long gone.

"No one does sport hatches like VW" (aka the GTI).

What do yall think?


Mini might have something to say about that. And, as we all know, Ford USED to have something to say about that until model year 2005...

Meanwhile, we're of course just talking about the USA market here, because I believe the EURO Focus ST kicks GTI butt.

But since when did VW ever sold that many GTI?

Focuses are best seller hatches, but VW isn't Focus 1- GTI 0.

"No one does sport hatches like VW" (aka the GTI).

What do yall think?

Yeah it's pretty much the King if your talking new cars. At 250hp/263tq the new r32 is the "hottest hatch" on the U.S. market. Even the GTi kicks the crap out of the Cooper S. The new r32 gives the Mazda speed3
a run for it's money with the added bonuses of awd and a 6speed DSG. You can flame all you want, but it's true.

But since when did VW ever sold that many GTI?

Focuses are best seller hatches, but VW isn't Focus 1- GTI 0.

dude, the VW Golf has long been one of the best selling cars in the entire world.[giggle]

I don't think how many cars sold is really the issue here.

Motor Trend also says that "No one does wagons better than Volvo".

Hey, they can have that title

Motor Trend also says that "No one does wagons better than Volvo".

you may have a point there

They deserve that title - the Mk1 GTi was the original hot hatch in the sense we use today. Its success is the only reason we got any other euro hatchback at all, ever. It might be from a different bloodline, but it is the spiritual father (grandfather?) to the SVT Focus, not to mention the rest of the Focus hatchback lineup.

A buddy of mine has an R32... it's great, but you'd expect it to be great for what he paid. My '04 SVTF cost $10K used, his cost $40K new out the door and my car nearly runs with his.

Bang for the buck?

A buddy of mine has an R32... it's great, but you'd expect it to be great for what he paid. My '04 SVTF cost $10K used, his cost $40K new out the door and my car nearly runs with his.

Bang for the buck?

What happens when both cars have 400hp? When you go to launch the focus you'll more than likely end up in a cloud of smoke, whereas the R32 will just fly, and this is especially true with the new ones that have the 6 speed DSG transmission. You set the launch control on it and you have no wheelspin.

That said, for the price difference you could RWD your SVT Zetec and turbo it. With RWD you would have decreased traction issues (This is only the case with the use of a zetec since V8s weigh a lot more).

I'd take a MS3 over a GTi. Ford had it right when the had the SVT, but those days are long gone.


Have to agree with Joe on this one. Funny thing is that basically every car rag that put up a MS3 against all others in its class, (including VW), it kicked ass & took names. And if I am not mistaken, MT was one of those before mentioned magazines....

I like the Focus, simple because of cost of parts and the abaility to actually work on your own car. My buddys GF has a Jetta and one day we were doin a oil change on his Edge and my Focus so we said hell might as well do hers too. NOPE NOT POSSIBLE, had some crazy looking lock nut on the oil plug trany plug and anything else you might want to maintain at home.

Golf are sooooo damn heavy. Worst.

If you own a vw, carry alot of extra bulbs. 8 out of 10 veedubs I see have a burnt out headlight and/or taillight, even the late models.[:p]

i am going to say that the SVTF is still better over all for the buck. it may be old but they are still great cars and they keep up with the gti even if they don't have the turbo. they are nice cars but the focus looks better and i would say that it runs better. if you were to look for an SVTF you couldnt find more then maybe like 20 within about 500 miles for less then 10,000 because when you get your hands on one you don't want to let it go

The R32 is sick though. but if I had $40K to blow I'd be shopping for a C5 Corvette.

I dunno, the VW Golf/Rabbit is a pretty impressive car. My old boss had an 02 golf tdi that I got to spend some time with - it really impressed me. Pretty nifty little car for what it was. The Rabbit is pretty nice, and very promising. Having spent some time with a bottom feeder Jetta as a rental car (identical to the rabbit from the seats forward) - I felt depressed when I got my 07 focus back. Bear in mind that I am comparing stock vs. stock - steel rims on both examples. The VW has a very composed ride that doesn't get jittery around 100 mph (the focus gets a little weird at those speeds) - got the jetta up to 130 while I had it.

If I had to do it all over again - I'd buy a Rabbit. First automatic transmission that didn't frustrate me. Considering that (if you ignore rebates) they are in the same price range - the rabbit is a no brainer.

Sure it may be more expensive to "tune", but that's not really something I'm going to do - the car has to satisfy me in stock form in order for me to buy it. Sure, parts may be expensive - but that's not going to be an issue for me - as five/six years down the road, when it's out of warranty - I'll be driving something else.

Also, the notion of parts being more expensive for european cars vs japanese or domestic isn't exactly 100% valid. I can think of some cases where parts for a european car is actually far cheaper than the Japanese or the domestic.

As for Volvo making the best station wagons - I thought that went without saying. The best wagons I have ever encountered/owned have been Volvos. Nobody else understands what it takes to build a truly excellent station wagon. (for fun - take a mid 1980's Volvo 740 wagon and a 2000-2005 Ford Taurus wagon - compare side to side - the ratty old Volvo will outclass the newish Ford).

Gti's and R32's are fine if you like 3300-3600 pound hatchbacks[rolleyes]

yeah b/c r32's are just laying around everywhere right?

yeah b/c r32's are just laying around everywhere right?


The new one just hit the lot.

Well VW did practically invent the pocket rocket segment...

and if you've ever been in a GTi, you know it's a step above an SI or an SVT. They're genuinely nice, comfortable, mature cars. Handling is a little behind, but I'm no handling nut anyway, so that doesn't bother me at all. Reliability is hit-or-miss, though...it'll either be the MOST rock-solid reliable car you've ever had, or it'll fall somewhere between the Yugo and Hyundai as the least reliable...there's no in-between.

Yeah it's pretty much the King if your talking new cars. At 250hp/263tq the new r32 is the "hottest hatch" on the U.S. market. Even the GTi kicks the crap out of the Cooper S. The new r32 gives the Mazda speed3
a run for it's money with the added bonuses of awd and a 6speed DSG. You can flame all you want, but it's true.

One thing to remember is weight. The R32 is a HEAVY car. I'm not saying that it isn't worth its salt, but...

Depending on the driver.. They can be beaten.

I think when they say, "nobody does hatchs like vw" they dont just mean as of right now, they are talking about the history. LIke someone said, the golf and gti have been big sellers world wide for what, over 20 years now, and they are still going strong. I must see like 2 or 3 Gti's a day and like 5 times as many golfs. Yea, the ms3 might be a great car, but its only been out for alittle while and will not stand the test of time that the golf/rabbit/gti has. I personally probably wont ever buy a VW cause of the horror stories i hear about their reliability and little things going wrong. And yes the focus was a great hatch(99-07) but apparently not good enough, cause Ford is killing it. So therefore, the statement "nobody does hatches like vw" is true, cause they are still making them and selling like hot cakes for the passed 30 years. Think of all the other companies that tried to make hatches...those cars have come and gone.