Last week a customer brought his SVT to my shop for a Xios Turbo kit install , Now that the kit is installed and time for a tune Focussport refuses to send Xios the Tune because it is at Focus-Power for the install
The Xios web site states that "• Software tuned by FocusSport™ on supplied SCT XCAL2 " The customer got his xcal but with NO tuning installed and focussport fefuses to send it to Xios

Everyone wonders and makes comments about why im down on FS well this is why, This is MAJOR BS , I (Focus-Power) have been tuning the SVT sence 2002 about 3 years before FS tuned there first SVT , randy stated to the Customer that Tom would read the ECU and get a copy of the tune, I could care less about a copy of FS tune, I have the tuning on 95% of the most powerfull and longest running high HP/TQ SVT in the US what the crap would I need a copy of his for, randy uses SCT and so can I , I have both Diablo and SCT and there isnt anything in FS software that isnt in mine there is nothing that FS can change that F-P cannot change and goes both ways

Im sure randy will come up with some BS story to tell as to why he wont and I dont care this is CRAP and the Customer is the one suffering whers FS high customer care now ?

The Xios web site does not say "• Software tuned by FocusSport™ on supplied SCT XCAL2 " Unless you take it to Focus-Power for the install

I feel Xios is cought in the middle here between a good Customer wanting what he paid for and a non customer friendly company (focus sport) just being an ass

The Xios Co has been great to deal with and I talked to Andreas about this and told him how I felt about customers NOT getting there tuning just because the Xios kit is being installed here , There has been some fitment issues with the kit but Xios has done everything in there power to help to try and correct them more to come on that in another thread

In all fairness I must say that Xios is working with this customer to help cover MOST of the cost for a custom dyno tune from Focus-Power (550.00) this didnt come till the customer talked directly with FS and got nowhere with randy , This kit gets sent out to other shops that do installs as well but they all got there tunes ,

My question to everyone is. Is this fair to the customer or the potential customers of Xios ?

Should it matter where the kit for installation as to if you get a tune or not ? If you take your SVT to McNews are you chancing not getting a tune there either? Who knows ?

Tom

I personally think this is total BS. I personally know the person whos car is there and he didnt not take it to Tom so that a pissing contest would start, he just want the items in question to be professionally installed.

I really don't know what to say. Best of luck to you Tom, and the poor SVT in question.

-- James

did you really expect anything less tom? come on now we can't even post about a focus gtg at your place

I don't know if I'm 100% clear on what's going on but can't the guy just "flash" the car himself without going thru Tom? Also, how do you read tuning files, SCT Pro Racer?

So can't the guy just "flash" the car himself without going thru Tom?

How the SVT is here with 60lb injectors in it and ready to be started then dynoed to make sure it is safe but no tune yet

Tom

I don't know if I'm 100% clear on what's going on but can't the guy just "flash" the car himself without going thru Tom? Also, how do you read tuning files, SCT Pro Racer?

Randy refused to send the tune b/c the customer had Tom do the install for fear of "Tom getting a copy of the tune"... It's soooo retarded I'm in disbelief... All randy needs to do is send the customer the tune.. It's THAT easy...but he won't...

I'm just trying to understand how things work so bare with me for a moment. Is it true that you (or any tuner for that matter) "has the ability" to copy the tune from Xios/FS? If so, do tuners generally make it a practice to send "their tune" to other tuners? Just curious, not taking sides or anything.

yes there are ways to copy a tune. So I can understand where Randy is standing.

Wow I dont even know what to say to this Tom... I mean I agree with the one posted before this is bs....

I hope this stupid issue is resolved very soon as I am this customers ride down to pick his svt up, and I cant wait to see what you can do with it [race]


[boxface] Focus Sport [boxface] but thats just my persional feeling...

Well there's two important factors to consider in the matter..
1) If it was included in the kit price and was paid for in full, does it matter?
2) Is it in the practice of a tuner (or any business) to deny a product sale based upon what they "think" may happen with it?

What if Sony pictures would only sell a movie (VHS/DVD) to people who have a Sony video player?

"This DVD is only $24.99!! *unless you are using a panasonic/pioneer unit because then you might copy our movie."

I know that the kit (WITH the tune) has been sent out to other individuals (who may be tuners themselves) for a self-install, and to people having them installed by a local shop of their choice (who again, may be able to pull the tune) but it didn't stop Randy then.

So where's the ground to stand on of "not wanting intellectual property in other people's hands who may have the ability/desire to extract the tune"?

the fact is he paid for it and didnt get his tune. thats retarded. FS sucks....

wow..that is ridiculous. What isthe focus world coming to?

You can kinda understand if you stretch your sympathy/empathy beyond normal limits.... but from a buyer's point of view, imagine how that comes off.

There's always a chance, but that's what "risk" is involved with business.

yes there are ways to copy a tune. So I can understand where Randy is standing.


WRONG.. There's only ONE way to get a tune once that tune is on a xcal2 and that is by having the tune loaded onto a cars ecu and then pulled off the ECU.. You CANNOT get that tune off of it just by hooking the xcal2 up to a computer. The only way would be to pull it off the ECU. That would be the only way for Tom to get the tune. Tom doesn't need Randy's tune, but the customer sure could use it...

But why does it matter if Tom gets the tune anyways, it's just software and it's software that Tom could probably re-create with relative ease...it just sucks for the customer that FS is not willing to accommodate said SVT owner.

Randy knows that tom would make a better tune lol...

yes there are ways to copy a tune. So I can understand where Randy is standing.

Actually NO there is NO WAY to open and look at a SCT .LL3 file they are encrypted and SCT even sais they cannot open them in LL3 and im sure randy sends out all his files in ll3 form so they cannot be looked at

Now can I load the tune then copy the the files on the ECU then make a tune file from it, yes I can but this does not change the facts at hand. The customer paid for a tune and isnt getting it and what the crap would I need a copy of the FS tune for thats like Sony asking Pioneer for a copy of how to make a colored television

I share my tunes openly with McNews and many many other shops ans McNews has even send me some

These are not that days of just learning how to tune the SVT that was back in 02-04 yes things were secrets then and people were learning. Those days are long gone, He has sent this same tune out to other tuning/install shops and if I had wanted a copy I could of got my hands on a ECU with the FS/Xios tune already loaded in it 3 months ago

Tom

Randy knows that tom would make a better tune lol...

Now now james be nice! [rofl]




I can understand him not wanting Tom to have the tune but its not Tom who wants it. It is the customer who PAYED for the tune and is takeing the car to a tuner who just happens to be Tom to have it tuned..... How would you feel if you payed for something and then were told you wouldnt be shipped it? Yeah exactly you would want your product or your money back.

yes there are ways to copy a tune. So I can understand where Randy is standing.

For the sake of argument lets say the tunes could be copied why is he sending them out to others that are going to shops for installs and dynos for safety checks and he wont send them to this customer ? Your argument does not make any sence

Tom

LOL, so I guess if you get it installed at any other focus shop (massive,focus power, CFM, ext...) you will not get your tune from Randy, what a joke. Where are you at Randy, why dont you come in here and explain yourself why you charged a customer for something and will not give it to him. If not give him a full refund for the price of the X-cal and tune. The $550.00 dollars that it is going to cost him on top off the $4,000.00 he just spent. You and you high and mighty customer service. So I guess he wont get any free tune updates from you guys either [rolleyes]

LOL, so I guess if you get it installed at any other focus shop (massive,focus power, CFM, ext...) you will not get your tune from Randy, what a joke. Where are you at Randy, why dont you come in here and explain yourself why you charged a customer for something and will not give it to him. If not give him a full refund for the price of the X-cal and tune. The $550.00 dollars that it is going to cost him on top off the $4,000.00 he just spent. You and you high and mighty customer service. So I guess he wont get any free tune updates from you guys either [rolleyes]

Just so its clear the customer didnt pay FS for a tune , he paid Xios but when Xios went to get the tune randy wuldnt let Xios have it because it was coming here for the install and dyno safety check, I charge 550.00 to do a full custom tune on the dyno + the cost of the xcal2 , Xios being in the middle has agreed to cover most of the 550.00 custom dyno fees so FS has left Xios hanging with money out of there pocket as well as a customer swinging in the wind

And people question why i love FS so much

Tom

What a shame that Xios has to bare the brunt of FS's cower. Is the competition really that high in the world of the focus?

Just so it will be known, when I told Randy I was considering the Pro Racer software, he said that if I went that route, he would not be able to send me "completed files" anymore. He said that he would be able to send me "base files" to get the car running but nothing finished. I am a FocusSport supercharger customer and I wasn't allowed to get completed files. I'm saying this simply to let you know that it's NOT just Tom, it is a general practice of Randy/FocusSport.

However, I totally agree that the customer should NOT have to suffer if he paid for a complete tune. Either he should have been refunded for the tune or some other tuning solution should have been provided. I'm sure you all would agree that all tuners/tunes are not the same so why would tuners just freely give away their "tuning products". Tom and Ray have good business relationships so I could understand why they would be willing to share tuning knowledge. Randy & Tom are virtually arch enemies, lol. I sympathize with the customer but we must put everthing into perspective before we jump to false conclusions.

I could care less about who is installing it, the customer paid for it, and FS will not give it up and is leaving Xios there trying to clean up the mess. Refund the product or give it to him. Pretty simple to me. [dunno] I can understand that he worked hard on his tune and does not want some one else just to take it and use it as there own, but thats why you lock your tune.

Just so it will be known, when I told Randy I was considering the Pro Racer software, he said that if I went that route, he would not be able to send me "completed files" anymore. He said that he would be able to send me "base files" to get the car running but nothing finished. I am a FocusSport supercharger customer and I wasn't allowed to get completed files. I'm saying this simply to let you know that it's NOT just Tom, it is a general practice of Randy/FocusSport.

However, I totally agree that the customer should NOT have to suffer if he paid for a complete tune. Either he should have been refunded for the tune or some other tuning solution should have been provided. I'm sure you all would agree that all tuners/tunes are not the same so why would tuners just freely give away their "tuning products". Tom and Ray have good business relationships so I could understand why they would be willing to share tuning knowledge. Randy & Tom are virtually arch enemies, lol. I sympathize with the customer but we must put everthing into perspective before we jump to false conclusions.
Randy owed Xios a tune for the customer and did not deliver it due to his opinion of the installer. He's [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]g wrong. There's no "False conclusions" about that.

well, personally knowing the owner of the SVT and seeing him go through this mess just to get a tune, COMPLETELY discouraged me about getting my turbo through Xios. I have been lookin into they're kit for a month or two now, and was almost convinced to go with that one. But i dunno now. Im probably just going to stick to the supercharger kit ive been looking at. I know that wont be too bad of a deal, buy im weary of the relocation of the oil filter crap i keep hearing of.

I hope all goes well with this project and it gets done SOON...Poor guy is probably in SVT withdrawls right about now!

Just so it will be known, when I told Randy I was considering the Pro Racer software, he said that if I went that route, he would not be able to send me "completed files" anymore. He said that he would be able to send me "base files" to get the car running but nothing finished. I am a FocusSport supercharger customer and I wasn't allowed to get completed files. I'm saying this simply to let you know that it's NOT just Tom, it is a general practice of Randy/FocusSport.

However, I totally agree that the customer should NOT have to suffer if he paid for a complete tune. Either he should have been refunded for the tune or some other tuning solution should have been provided. I'm sure you all would agree that all tuners/tunes are not the same so why would tuners just freely give away their "tuning products". Tom and Ray have good business relationships so I could understand why they would be willing to share tuning knowledge. Randy & Tom are virtually arch enemies, lol. I sympathize with the customer but we must put everthing into perspective before we jump to false conclusions.

if thats so then how come he sends out complete files to people who buy the product? Whats the difference from me getting it and loading it into my car and then in a month taking it to Tom or getting it this second and taking it to Toms to make sure everything is ok and tweak any little things.....?

What a shame that Xios has to bare the brunt of FS's cower. Is the competition really that high in the world of the focus?

How do you know that Xios has to bare the brunt of this cost? Don't you think that Xios is paying FocusSport in some form or the other. If so, don't you think that Xios will come to some monetary settlement with FS? I think that alot of assumptions are being made here without hearing the whole side of the story.

well, personally knowing the owner of the SVT and seeing him go through this mess just to get a tune, COMPLETELY discouraged me about getting my turbo through Xios. I have been lookin into they're kit for a month or two now, and was almost convinced to go with that one. But i dunno now. Im probably just going to stick to the supercharger kit ive been looking at. I know that wont be too bad of a deal, buy im weary of the relocation of the oil filter crap i keep hearing of.

I hope all goes well with this project and it gets done SOON...Poor guy is probably in SVT withdrawls right about now!

Its not Xios its Randy... just dont let Randy know your gunna have Tom do the work on your car and I am sure you will get the tune. Xios is apparently gone out of there way to help "said customer" get this done with Tom. I hope this gets dont too as I cant wait to take "said customer" down to NC to get this car. All I can say is it will be a fun ride home.

How do you know that Xios has to bare the brunt of this cost? Don't you think that Xios is paying FocusSport in some form or the other. If so, don't you think that Xios will come to some monetary settlement with FS? I think that alot of assumptions are being made here without hearing the whole side of the story.


FS is screwing Xios b/c the xios kit as advertised is suppoed to be supplied with an xcal2 unit containing a tune. Xios will have to pay Tom more money than what Focus Sport offered for a refund for a custom tune.

if thats so then how come he sends out complete files to people who buy the product? Whats the difference from me getting it and loading it into my car and then in a month taking it to Tom or getting it this second and taking it to Toms to make sure everything is ok and tweak any little things.....?

The difference in MY case (from what I can see) is that before the Pro Racer software, Randy was exclusively providing the tuning. Once I got the Pro-Racer, there was no more control over who got the tune.

Tom, would you be willing to send Randy a copy of your tune if they we're installing one of your old turbo kits?

How do you know that Xios has to bare the brunt of this cost? Don't you think that Xios is paying FocusSport in some form or the other. If so, don't you think that Xios will come to some monetary settlement with FS? I think that alot of assumptions are being made here without hearing the whole side of the story.

...and if his attitude IS what it is towards the whole situation, regardless of who the customer is or what was legally purchased, do you really think that he's going to be apt to changing his mind?

I'm sure that if the customer went through the effort to call Randy himself that he would have asked for the product, an equivalent product, or compensation to match the retail value of a new tune. No? If he (randy) refuses to do anything or pay any money to that person, then why would he turn around and back peddle the situation and pay XIOS for the same thing in a "monetary settlement" thus possibly avoiding the whole negative factor of the transaction? Unless it really is a personal issue/feeling towards Tom -- and if that's the case.. why make the customer deal with THEIR petty crap in the first place?

Just so it will be known, when I told Randy I was considering the Pro Racer software, he said that if I went that route, he would not be able to send me "completed files" anymore. He said that he would be able to send me "base files" to get the car running but nothing finished. I am a FocusSport supercharger customer and I wasn't allowed to get completed files. I'm saying this simply to let you know that it's NOT just Tom, it is a general practice of Randy/FocusSport.

When you bought your FS/VF kit you PAID for a tune to go with it, Now your spending more money with FS and buying the PRP and now he wont give you the tune you paid for in the begining and are now running and you think that is ok ? You paid for that tune when you bought the kit

When a customer comes to me and I tune his Focus I allow them a copy of there tune , I have sent MANY customers copies of there tunes to other dyno shops for when thy want more boost or have made small changes and need tune changes and dont want to drive 100`s of miles to come back

Tom

Thread on FJ concerning this issue was deleted ~11:30...

That's the longest post I have ever seen from Tom.....and it takes some major shit For Tom to write stuff like that.

DAMN......I'd take FS to the Better Business Bureau. you Paid for a product that was not delivered because the issuing company didn't like where you were taking it......=TOTAL BS

And I feel bad for XIOS......they are just caught in the middle..

Shit Tom, strike a deal with XIOS to provide tuning and kick FS off this nice kit. Or XIOS needs the option to NOT include tuning when you order, that's another way to avoid the FS BS.

Honestly, if I get the XIOS, I was gonna go to Tom as well...[hihi]

So much for customer service. I will NEVER buy a damn thing from them now.....

The Xios Kit is a very nice kit (partwise). The pieces are all of very good quality, and is complete down to every piece you would need (except for a tune :P) and I'm sure Tom would agree since he's got the parts in hand.

I've dealt with Andreas (over at Xiosmotorworks) and can tell you first hand that he's an outstanding (and upstanding) businessman and professional. I've seen him be flexible and understanding for these kinds of situations and will even expedite shipping of replacement parts without hesitiation.

No, the problem isn't with Xios. From my dealings with Andreas, I'd say you can't beat the service.

Now... his supplier for a Tune, on the other hand.......

How do you know that Xios has to bare the brunt of this cost? Don't you think that Xios is paying FocusSport in some form or the other. If so, don't you think that Xios will come to some monetary settlement with FS? I think that alot of assumptions are being made here without hearing the whole side of the story.


FS charges Xios 200.00 for a tune (my understanding of the deal) that would of ment a 200.00 refund from the kit price of 4000.00 BUT he paid the 4000.00 and didnt get a tune , Now a tune to replace it is going to cost 550.00 why should the customer have to pay the extra 350.00 or why should Xios have to pay the 500.00 just because randy is being a jurk

And yes Xios has stated they will pay the brunt of the 550.00 cost, FS is willing to do nothing

Tom

Thread on FJ concerning this issue was deleted ~11:30...

Yeah I was in the process of replying in it and it went away haha I thought I got bannned. [lockdance]

Shit Tom, strike a deal with XIOS to provide tuning and kick FS off this nice kit.

DING DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner.

I was gonna see how long before someone else suggested what a lot of us were already thinking.

Tom, would you be willing to send Randy a copy of your tune if they we're installing one of your old turbo kits?

Yes a customer of mine took his ZX3/SVT to FS to have it tuned some years ago and I offered to send the tune and randy said he would just do one of his own so the customer opted for that so to answer Yes

Tom

Props to XIOS for taking a hit to preserve it's customer service...that's helping at all costs....literally...

Yeah I was in the process of replying in it and it went away haha I thought I got bannned. [lockdance]

Thers a shocker ! Lets not let the Foci masses see FS true colors they didnt just lock it they deleted it so no one could see the post on fj help hide and cover up the truely good customer service fs is doing for this customer and Xios

Tom

FranticFocus05 - "Just wondering if you deleted the thread about randy and toms issue over tuning?

If you didnt who did and what was the reason for closing the thread?

Thanks Eric"


That is the PM I sent the mod who was posting the the thread on FJ and this is the responce I got...


orangeZXT - "Admin pulled it till Randy has time to look over it bro"

I am sure tunes have made their way around by now and Randy could very well have a copy of his and a few other tuners' tunes.

Cracks me up 'cause when I first got my Xcal2 it came with a tune on it from Focus Sport and it got corrupted. Randy wouldnt email me the tune, he wanted me to mail him the unit and pay shipping back and forth. Wayne never had a problem mailing me the tune, or any updates he came up with. So in my eyes randy is just being a kahk.

yeah, so he can have time to take a nervous shit and think about how he's gonna cover this one up.....[hihi]

FS, what a JOKE.......

When you bought your FS/VF kit you PAID for a tune to go with it, Now your spending more money with FS and buying the PRP and now he wont give you the tune you paid for in the begining and are now running and you think that is ok ? You paid for that tune when you bought the kit

When a customer comes to me and I tune his Focus I allow them a copy of there tune , I have sent MANY customers copies of there tunes to other dyno shops for when thy want more boost or have made small changes and need tune changes and dont want to drive 100`s of miles to come back

Tom

This will be my last post since I get the feeling that most people's minds are already made up and not genuinely interested in the facts. True interest and concern is expressed by asking questions and not making assumptions and jumping to conclusions before everything is presented.

In regards to your comment/question Tom, yes I paid for my initial tune with the FS/VF kit. However, my setup has changed SO much from the standard kit and I have gotten MANY new tunes for all of the changes I have done. I can assure that in NO way possible have I paid for all of the tuning support I have gotten thus far so I understand his position. Seeing as tho you have been willing to share/send your tunes to other tuners, I commend you for your customer service. However, I must also respect the practices of other tuners. For me, I am pleased with the tuning & customer service from Randy and yourself thus far and commend you both for it.

Sounds like a little PARANOIA on the part of FS!!

This will be my last post since I get the feeling that most people's minds are already made up and not genuinely interested in the facts. True interest and concern is expressed by asking questions and not making assumptions and jumping to conclusions before everything is presented.

In regards to your comment/question Tom, yes I paid for my initial tune with the FS/VF kit. However, my setup has changed SO much from the standard kit and I have gotten MANY new tunes for all of the changes I have done. I can assure that in NO way possible have I paid for all of the tuning support I have gotten thus far so I understand his position. Seeing as tho you have been willing to share/send your tunes to other tuners, I commend you for your customer service. However, I must also respect the practices of other tuners. For me, I am pleased with the tuning & customer service from Randy and yourself thus far and commend you both for it.

I undersatand and respect you comments and thoughts as I do with all that post in FF

What if you paid 4000.00 for your kit and it came with a tune and you took it to a shop and because you chose what you felt was the best shop to do the best work and couldnt get a tune because of who you chose ,BUT was told if you took it anywhere but that shop you WOULD get the tune ?

Leave FS and F-P out of the question then answer it honestly how would you feel then ?

Tom

^^ i must agree!

island focus... i can tell your intelligent and that was a very respectable post you just made. it was big of you to commend both Tom and Randy while still trying to convey your point. which is dont jump to conclusions and get the facts. ok... certainly the majority of people in this thread DONT really know the facts, and are just going based on what they read so far, including me! In FACT (lol) im sure Tom, and only a few that know the customer know the REAL story anyway.

now lemmy see... you buy your FS kit with a tune for a flat rate. Now, hes given you his product with multiple updates that you didnt pay for. I can say, thats not bad customer service on Randy's part at all. However you did pay for a tune. maybe not the updated tune you have now, but a tune no less, and it is YOURS. now that randy dipped into them a little deeper than normal, the tune is no longer yours? And your ok with that?

I can respect your loyalty to FS because of your past with them, but look at what is happening. To be honest, when i opened this thread and saw toms post, i thought it was gonna be another complaint that tom has about randy (lol, no offense Tom) which it is. But, lets look beyond the whole constructed story that randy doesnt want tom to see his tunes, and assume that hes just doing his business his way. look at it from the customer's point of view. your biased in a way, because you've received excellent customer service from randy. however, this particular customer has not!

anyways, if you dont want to post anymore, ok i respect that, because ive heard what you have to say and understand where your coming from. Hell, im kinda biased cuz Tom tuned and built my car! lol

All im saying is that im not even considering tuner/tuning issues involved. Im just saying that if i was that guy, id be PISSED OFF. This thread wouldnt be any different if the customer had made this thread rather than tom.

Soooo, i will not jump to any conclusions either, and will not comment on either tuner involved. I just know what waiting for your turbo SVT to be done feels like, and i sympathize for the cusomters lack of service.

k im done!

-Brian

btw, email sent tom.

This is Todd posting under his cousin's account.


Its well known that I am friends with Randy, so I'm sure that you all are gonna disregard my comments, but I will air them openly and freely.


a.) with regard to Randy no longer offering support to FS Customers that upgrade to pro-racer. It in my mind makes sense. Microsoft doesn't freely distribute their code so anyone can rewrite their own version of Windows do they? Nobody ever said that they have to "give back" their tune which is what "Dazed" implys by the tone of his post. Just that any further upgraded tunes and/or tweaks would not. However, Randy has on many occasion offered tuning assistance to pro-racer customers. He'll comment on values that should be in the appropriate cells and such. Its just that he doesn't want to give away his tune, his style, his technique. Tom would you want to post up all your screen shots of all the tables in Mako? I didn't think so.

b.) There is a whole second side to the story, and I would like Tom to directly answer some questions.

1.) To the best of your knowledge, was the customer honest in his intentions to have the kit installed by you and tuned by you?

2.) Was the customer offered on at least two seperate occasions a credit/refund for sizeable amounts of money in lieu of an accompanying tune?
2a.) Did you not used to offer your turbo kits at a lower price for coming without the MIC, the tuning file on the chip effectively being the same?

3.) Did the customer then lie to Xios and tell them that he was having it installed by someone else, only to have that lie exposed when you yourself called Xios for some technical support as you encountered an issue during the install?

4.) Tom, we are aware that you're not able to read an .ll3 file, but you are able to read the programming on the ECU once it has been flashed with said .ll3 file are you not?
4a.) And I'm sure Tom will have the FocusSport programming as soon as he can have his hands on a customer car with both the Xios and the FocusSport kits and find that he has something to learn, or that he does something differently. But again Tom, would you email your tune directly to FocusSport for them to evaluate and look over? Does Ford email the designs and plans for cars over to GM?


Tom, due respect, you're not being fair here. I don't necessarily think its your fault. I think your customer is playing you, and is playing Xios and FocusSport at the same time. Randy has stated that the customer was offered a $500.00 refund to cover the cost of having you tune it. I think that is MORE than fair. Considering, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but your turbo kits were offered at about a $600 discount if the customer chose not to purchase the MAFS, Injectors and tune. Is that not accurate? Xios certainly doesn't aquire the fuel injectors and MAFS housing at a cost of $100 only, so it seems that they're offering a better price for their kit without the tuning than you used to. But I'm honestly forgetting the price differential in what you offered, so I may be wrong.

I swear, I'm never going to buy anything from FS again. Granted I only ever bought a VF rear mount from them, but stories like this lay bare their twisted idea of what "customer service" is.

I'm surprised this thread is still open, it seems like any time anyone has something bad to say about FS even on here it doesn't take too long before one of the mods locks it down.

this damn thread blew up over the coarse of a few hours.

it will get locked, but I'd like to see what Randy has to say, just foir kicks, before it gets locked.

What, you mean you want to hear him go on about how Tom is just trying to steal his tune and they did nothing wrong?

What really surprises me is how the mods on here turn a blind eye to them when they talk up their products without paying for affiliate status. Especially given how active they are in stopping others from using the site for "commercialism" without being an affiliate...

I just want to hear Randy's reason for not giving a paying customer his merchandise. More over, why they aren't giving the tune to XIOS for the customers.....cause If I buy one, I BETTER GET ALL THE SHIT....especially for $4,400.

I undersatand and respect you comments and thoughts as I do with all that post in FF

What if you paid 4000.00 for your kit and it came with a tune and you took it to a shop and because you chose what you felt was the best shop to do the best work and couldnt get a tune because of who you chose ,BUT was told if you took it anywhere but that shop you WOULD get the tune ?

Leave FS and F-P out of the question then answer it honestly how would you feel then ?

Tom

OK, last one. Tom, just to be clear, I NEVER said or intentionally implied that it was OK to charge customers full price and refuse to send ANY part of what they paid for. If you read back thru my postings, I specifically said that a refund should have been given OR another tuning solution.

Yes, I have always tried to leave FS and F-P out of it. I'm just looking at it from the standpoint of 2 competing professionals. I agree, I would also be very pissed off if this was me and I didn't get all of what I paid for without adequate refund or compensation. That was never my issue [:)]

This is Todd posting under his cousin's account.
b.) There is a whole second side to the story, and I would like Tom to directly answer some questions..
The FACT still stands how ever you want to twist it that this customer paid for a Tune as posted in the Xios web site from FS and if he had taken his SVT to McNews , CFM , or 500 other install/dyno shops he would of got that tune but because he lives close to me and ended up bringing it here in the end he wont be getting the tune

This is Todd posting under his cousin's account.
1.) To the best of your knowledge, was the customer honest in his intentions to have the kit installed by you and tuned by you?.
Yes 100%

This is Todd posting under his cousin's account.
2.) Was the customer offered on at least two seperate occasions a credit/refund for sizeable amounts of money in lieu of an accompanying tune?
2a.) Did you not used to offer your turbo kits at a lower price for coming without the MIC, the tuning file on the chip effectively being the same?.
This is true he was offered 200.00 but 200.00 would not cover the cost of a custom tune ANYWHERE and the customer should not have to be out of pocket for another 350.00 just because his SVT is coming to me where if he had taken it anywhere else he would of got the tune he paid for

This is Todd posting under his cousin's account.
3.) Did the customer then lie to Xios and tell them that he was having it installed by someone else, only to have that lie exposed when you yourself called Xios for some technical support as you encountered an issue during the install?.
LOL No he didnt its my understanding his intentions were to not take it to me and have it installed at a local speed/import shop because he was warned if he did bring it to me he wouldnt get a tune BUT after taking it to the speed shop and them looking at it and the way they were talking about it being a Focus and the something like 12 to 1600.00 price tag he didnt feel good about them and said screw it , Its going to Tom

This is Todd posting under his cousin's account.
4.) Tom, we are aware that you're not able to read an .ll3 file, but you are able to read the programming on the ECU once it has been flashed with said .ll3 file are you not?.
This is true and I stated that in an earlier post WHATS YOUR POINT and why would I want FS tune , I was tuning the SVT 3 years before FS stated they cannot make any file changes that I cant make so whats the big deal

This is Todd posting under his cousin's account.
4a.) And I'm sure Tom will have the FocusSport programming as soon as he can have his hands on a customer car with both the Xios and the FocusSport kits and find that he has something to learn, or that he does something differently. But again Tom, would you email your tune directly to FocusSport for them to evaluate and look over? Does Ford email the designs and plans for cars over to GM?.
As stated in an earlier post I have offered a customer with my kit to send him a copy because he was going to FS for some dyno runs randy opted to do his own tune on the Focus DO YOU NOT READ ANY OF THEIS BEFORE YOU POST most of what you have asked has been talked about already


This is Todd posting under his cousin's account.
Tom, due respect, you're not being fair here. I don't necessarily think its your fault. I think your customer is playing you, and is playing Xios and FocusSport at the same time. Randy has stated that the customer was offered a $500.00 refund to cover the cost of having you tune it. I think that is MORE than fair. Considering, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but your turbo kits were offered at about a $600 discount if the customer chose not to purchase the MAFS, Injectors and tune. Is that not accurate? Xios certainly doesn't aquire the fuel injectors and MAFS housing at a cost of $100 only, so it seems that they're offering a better price for their kit without the tuning than you used to. But I'm honestly forgetting the price differential in what you offered, so I may be wrong.

The ONLY player here is FS , The customer was not offered the 500.00 till late yesterday evening our time when he contacted Xios then randy directly , then Xios called back and for the first time went from 200.00 refund to 500.00 refund to help cover the cost of the tuning , The customer is still out 65,00

I have copies of the PW tune many of them, I have copies of the jr BBK and I wouldnt use them none of them and i doubt seriously that randy has anything to teach me

It still comes down to if this customer had gone anywhere else he would of gotten the tune listed on the Xios site ONLY because his SVT came here does he not get it now, Xios is in the middle and it just pissed me off that a customer get screwed just because he used me as an installer

And todd if this had been your Focus and you had bought a turbo kit from me and had taken it to FS for install but I wouldnt send you the tune just because you were at FS you would be PISSED

Tom

Tom, I'm not sure if that's Todd Wilson, that sounds more like Todd Parker.

Yea thought about that to , edited

Tom

now lemmy see... you buy your FS kit with a tune for a flat rate. Now, hes given you his product with multiple updates that you didnt pay for. I can say, thats not bad customer service on Randy's part at all. However you did pay for a tune. maybe not the updated tune you have now, but a tune no less, and it is YOURS. now that randy dipped into them a little deeper than normal, the tune is no longer yours? And your ok with that?

The initial tune that I paid for is mine, yes. That tune is no longer sufficient since I have made custom modifications to my kit. Randy was willing to send me the base tune to get started with for the Pro Racer and I was OK with that because I wanted a custom dyno tune anyway.

You being the customer ,If your happy with that thats all that matters , a dyno tune will allways be the best and safest as long as the tuner does there job

Tom

Anyone else need some tylenol lol.

You being the customer ,If your happy with that thats all that matters , a dyno tune will allways be the best and safest as long as the tuner does there job

Tom

It's not that I'm "happy" about it but I can understand and accept it. I would prefer to have the completed file but that's just how it is. Others may not understand it or find it acceptable at all but that's their right of opinion.

Yea thought about that to , edited

Tom


Don't hold back Tom. You know its me. Parker has his own account. Mine was banned because you had me banned, so I have to resort to using my cousin's.


Now to address some of your points: Well, I have to get to work, I'll post more from there. If nobody sees anything further, assume Tom's had me banned again.

It's not that I'm "happy" about it but I can understand and accept it. I would prefer to have the completed file but that's just how it is. Others may not understand it or find it acceptable at all but that's their right of opinion.

William, to be fair, you're doing some ultra-trick stuff that is very VERY custom. You've gotten to the point where it makes the most sense to get it locally tuned (which in the land of Bahamia, is unlikely) or tune it yourself.

William, to be fair, you're doing some ultra-trick stuff that is very VERY custom. You've gotten to the point where it makes the most sense to get it locally tuned (which in the land of Bahamia, is unlikely) or tune it yourself.

FYI, we now have a mobile dynojet and a tuner that comes over every couple of weeks [cool]

I agree, it would be in my best interest to have my car dyno tuned here locally and that was part of my point.

Tell the guy to put a cancel charge on the credit card for failure to deliver and FS will respond :).......I do this when people decide not to deliver items to me.

You do know that he purchased this kit from Xios right? So Tom, did the guy get sorted out or.......?

When I talked to the customer in question last night probably 10:30pm EST He was not offered any $500 refund. So this offer was made quite late, or rather early this morning since we are on the east coast and FS and Xios are on the west coast.

The local shop he brought it to to enquire about the install was Dyno Tuned Performance in Chesapeake, VA. Their prices are outrageously high but are one of few semi reputable shops in the area. Their URL: http://dtpracing.com/

Now here's a real question for the tuners:

Do you consider when a customer buys a tune from you, that the tune on that cars ECU to still be your property? B/c that's how it seems Randy thinks. So the customer is only paying to use or rent that programming in their car?

i think if FS is doing this out of a rivalry thing, they are only hurting their business that way. fact is someone paid good money.. alot by my standards and didn't get what they paid for all because someone "doesn't like" someone else. it's not right but this stuff happens all the time i would say. this doesn't take away the abilities of FS or F-P at all. they both are good at what they do obviously from their products, but when it comes to me spending my hard earned money and someone brings their personal griefs into the business transaction.. that's not right. hope everything worked out for that customer and his car. hope he was a local guy. did he have to keep the car their extra days?

Tom, I didn't know you were an authorized retailer of the Xios kit. But it appears from this thread (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111753) that you're offering the kit for sale with your own tuning.

On the surface it appears that you have been trying to get your hands on the kit, so you could develop your own tune for the kit. The customer, according to Randy, told Xios that when ordering and they offered to discount the kit in lieu of not coming with a tune. Then the guy changed his story, and Xios was unaware that you'd be touching the kit until you called them with a question.

You're critical of Xios selling the kit without the tune, but again, you used to do the same thing. Vortech did the same thing with their blower kits. And I'd like to point out that the cost differential on both those setups (yours and Vortech) was not nearly what the cost of going to a local tuner and DIY tuning would be. If I bought a Focus-Power turbo without the MIC back in the day, I would have saved $600, right? But that included hardware, did it not?

I love how you titled this thread "MAJOR ISSUES" when there is only one issue and that is that they don't want to hand over their proprietary information willingly to a competetor. Again, Microsoft doesn't hand over the code for Windows to anyone, right?

im thinking tom more or less wanted the tune and see whats going on to see if he could improve on it or make it safer or what not....not saying its a bad tune..its not it has great numbers and the graphs look good. However i do see it a problem in not sending a tune because they think tom will copy it and sell it or something...i diddnt bother reading most of the posts because it makes me cringe reading fighting no matter who is right but did the customer at least get a discount for not getting the tune....because when it comes down to it all thats what matters, and that is what ill base my opinion on when thinking about FS/Xios

Ill be the first to say that i havent read all the comments on here, but the botton line is, the kit is sold with the tune and is stated as such. He should get the supplied tune and as far as FS is concerned, its none of their business where it goes since they are paid by Xios for it, not the customer. Ford Racing does the same thing for the BBK. It is a "piece" of the kit as a "kit" and sold that way. Once its sold, it is no longer FS concern, they are basically a sub-contractor in this case. Believe me, Tom doesnt need to see that tune, its not like he hasent done all of that before they did.

Don't hold back Tom. You know its me. Parker has his own account. Mine was banned because you had me banned, so I have to resort to using my cousin's.


Now to address some of your points: Well, I have to get to work, I'll post more from there. If nobody sees anything further, assume Tom's had me banned again.

I have never backed down to a man in my life I wont start with you, First let me say I had 100% NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU GETTING BANNED , Dont know why you got banned and done care I must say this is the first time I have ever seen you post where you were not being an all out jurk [thankyou]

I dont have the power to ban anyone and dont agree with people being banned for having an opinion , unlike fj you have to do something britty bad to get banned here

Tom

why would tom want the tune so badly to copy it and use? he does this for a living. he can make his own just as good or better with some time. doesn't make sense that he wanted to "steal" it for his own benefit. it's suppose to be about the customer. if F-P was closer to get the car professionally tuned then whats the deal with sending the tuner regardless of who they are to do it for the customer. without those customers retailers and tuners would be nothing

On the surface it appears that you have been trying to get your hands on the kit, so you could develop your own tune for the kit. The customer, according to Randy, told Xios that when ordering and they offered to discount the kit in lieu of not coming with a tune. Then the guy changed his story, and Xios was unaware that you'd be touching the kit until you called them with a question.?
This has already been addressed when you asked it the first time


You're critical of Xios selling the kit without the tune, but again, you used to do the same thing. Vortech did the same thing with their blower kits. And I'd like to point out that the cost differential on both those setups (yours and Vortech) was not nearly what the cost of going to a local tuner and DIY tuning would be. If I bought a Focus-Power turbo without the MIC back in the day, I would have saved $600, right? But that included hardware, did it not??
Im not critical of Xios at all its my feeling that Xios would of sent the tune to this customer but randy refused and came right out and stated the reason being that it was coming to me

I love how you titled this thread "MAJOR ISSUES" when there is only one issue and that is that they don't want to hand over their proprietary information willingly to a competetor. Again, Microsoft doesn't hand over the code for Windows to anyone, right?

Not exactly true if i go buy a dell computer it comes with all the Microsoft software loaded on it just like the Xcal2 would of come from randy all MAC would have to do is break down the files and they could see exactly what Mictosoft is doing but me being like MAC I could care less because I have my own way of tuning them and it has works for 10 to 1 of what boosted SVT fs has done , Does it say in the dell advertisements that they will sell the hard ware but not the software if it goes to a computer repair shop that works on MAC NO it doesent


Tom

Don't hold back Tom. You know its me. Parker has his own account. Mine was banned because you had me banned, so I have to resort to using my cousin's.


Now to address some of your points: Well, I have to get to work, I'll post more from there. If nobody sees anything further, assume Tom's had me banned again.

Tom had nothing to do with having you banned. I had you banned. I plan to have you banned again, for the simple reason that you ONLY come on this site to argue with Tom.

FranticFocus05 - "Just wondering if you deleted the thread about randy and toms issue over tuning?

If you didnt who did and what was the reason for closing the thread?

Thanks Eric"


That is the PM I sent the mod who was posting the the thread on FJ and this is the responce I got...


orangeZXT - "Admin pulled it till Randy has time to look over it bro"
That's a joke considering how they've let some NASTY Marcy Motorsports threads hang at Fj. I bet they never let Walter look them over first before they posted them. I'm really glad this came out. My tuner decision is fast approaching, and I don't want to get into a situation like this. Apparently the deck is stacked at FJ. Wonder how many other FS customer issues have been swept under the rug?

what's the deal? are there some kind of special ties between FS and FJ. i don't understand why FJ doesn't want threads about FS being known to the public but for other companies it's ok

I really hope this gets worked out. Reading through threads gives me the impression that different tuners are good guys, but for some reason can't get along with each other which only hurts the customer in the end. It makes it very hard for us who live 3000 miles away to make a decision about who to go with. Everytime these little pissing contests start, I wonder if I bought the wrong car.

You know guys, this could come down to a legal issue between Benny and Xios. Benny would win. FS would loose after Xios got done with them too. Theres no since in this happening to a paying customer especially when it is stated in the paperwork that its included in the kit.

The Customer is getting back 500.00 after paypal fees that leaves him with 65.00 out of pocket for his tune that he already paid for

Xois is paying this out of there pocket and I respect that bet the web site needs to be changed because randy has now stated that McNews wont get a tune file either if a Xios customer takes his Focus to them , Are we going to need a list of places Xios customers can takethere SVT if they buy the kit and customer that doesent take a mail order to to some tuner/dyno shop is crazy so does that mean that no one will get tunes any more or just wo fs likes , How will a customer know if he will get a tune ?

Tom

Thats good, but are they going to go after FS now for at least part of that back? They should.

after reading this post it make me feel mad...im looking into buy this turbo kit and with all the hoops i have to go through to get it tuned...doesnt seem like its worth the money...if randy is so worried about loseing his tune then why did he parter up with Xios in the first place...tom if i buy this kit and dont get the tune because i take it to the "wrong" shop would you be willing to sale the one you made for the kit? i live on the west coast and FS/ Randy just lost respect from me and the money i was thinking about sending their way for parts

It seems that the customer was told up front what would happen from FS.

Then the customer was offered a $200 discount so Tom could tune it.

The customer then said he was not going to go through Tom.

FS was going to put the tune on and leave it be.

Then the car was at Toms getting the kit installed and FS took the tune off and put the $200 discount back on.

As a shop owner...if I am getting ready to send something like that to someone...and I find out its at another tuners place...they are getting the same thing. It will come blank with a discount for no tunes. Especially between 2 focus tuners. The guy was never left in the dark.

I see Turbo Tom in the wrong here for calling out FS on his own forum.

.02

It seems that the customer was told up front what would happen from FS.

Then the customer was offered a $200 discount so Tom could tune it.

The customer then said he was not going to go through Tom.

FS was going to put the tune on and leave it be.

Then the car was at Toms getting the kit installed and FS took the tune off and put the $200 discount back on.

As a shop owner...if I am getting ready to send something like that to someone...and I find out its at another tuners place...they are getting the same thing. It will come blank with a discount for no tunes. Especially between 2 focus tuners. The guy was never left in the dark.

I see Turbo Tom in the wrong here for calling out FS on his own forum.

.02

The kit was sent to the customer - that includes the xcal2 but it didn't come with a tune. FS never removed the tune, they just refused to send the customer one b/c he had Tom do the install of the parts - nothing to do with installing the tune or looking at the tune. The car and all the parts were already at Toms when Randy decided not to send the tune. This all came around b/c Randy found out the car was at Tom's through Andreas. There was no changing of the cost b/c it was already paid for. The money was already in Andreas hands...

The kit was sent to the customer - that includes the xcal2 but it didn't come with a tune. FS never removed the tune, they just refused to send the customer one b/c he had Tom do the install of the parts - nothing to do with installing the tune or looking at the tune. The car and all the parts were already at Toms when Randy decided not to send the tune. This all came around b/c Randy found out the car was at Tom's through Andreas.

Randy had every right to do what he did.

Why would you send a tune to someone that does the exact same thing you do?

If they are good...then it wouldn't matter. Which it shouldn't.

It seems that Tom is the instigator in a problem that never really existed.

fs sucks end of story. theyre local and i still wont buy parts from them.

theres been issues within socalfanatics about them and they have terrible customer service and their prices are a bit higher. also they dont offer anything any other company doesnt.

Randy had every right to do what he did.

Why would you send a tune to someone that does the exact same thing you do?

If they are good...then it wouldn't matter. Which it shouldn't.

It seems that Tom is the instigator in a problem that never really existed.

he would send it because he paid for it you jackass. even if he didnt. its for the sake of the customer and not for the sake of the tuner.

Randy had every right to do what he did.

Why would you send a tune to someone that does the exact same thing you do?

If they are good...then it wouldn't matter. Which it shouldn't.

It seems that Tom is the instigator in a problem that never really existed.
The tune was to be sent to the customer. Not Tom... It was already paid for.
How is Tom the instigator for FS not sending the customer the tune.[screwy]

he would send it because he paid for it you jackass. even if he didnt. its for the sake of the customer and not for the sake of the tuner.

Thanks for showing your age.

The retailer DOES NOT have to do anything they do not want to do.

A $200 refund was offered for the tuneless programmer. End of story.

I just posted over there too. Its sad that FS wants to be selective when they are contracted by the selling company to provide a service.

lol.. nows it's turning funny the way ppl can actually think that it's not FS fault lol thats like me going to ford buying a mustang cobra but getting it without the s/c...

The tune was to be sent to the customer. Not Tom... It was already paid for.
How is Tom the instigator for FS not sending the customer the tune.[screwy]

But he knew it was being brought to another tuner. Why would he be willing to give up his work to his competition.

All you guys see is the customer here...and they are not always right.

The customer has a lot of the fault here...and you guys want the retailers to carry the blame.

I dont get it.

FS never removed the tune, they just refused to send the customer one b/c he had Tom do the install of the parts - nothing to do with installing the tune or looking at the tune.


A point that needs to be addressed. To the best of my knowledge, Randy doesn't ship the XCal for Xios or even his own Turbo/Superchargers with the tune on them. He emails it to the customer a couple days later. This allows them to get the kit out the door as quick as possible and Randy can work on writing the tune while its shipping.

Thanks for showing your age.

The retailer DOES NOT have to do anything they do not want to do.

A $200 refund was offered for the tuneless programmer. End of story.
And as stated the $200 does not cover the customer having to get a tune elsewhere. FS is supposed to give tuned Xcal2's to Xios for the kit, and they didn't. FS failed their obligation to supply Xios with tuned xcal2's. It was decided after the customer had already recieved everything else in the kit that FS would not send the tune that was already paid for.

And as stated the $200 does not cover the customer having to get a tune elsewhere. FS is supposed to give tuned Xcal2's to Xios for the kit, and they didn't. FS failed their obligation to supply Xios with tuned xcal2's. It was decided after the customer had already recieved everything else in the kit that FS would not send the tune that was already paid for.

FS was up front with the entire situation.

How can you possibly think that a $200 mail order tune is going to cover a custom dyno tune?

Why do you think FS is responsible for that?

The discount/refund was offered up front for the tuneless SCT. End of story.

A point that needs to be addressed. To the best of my knowledge, Randy doesn't ship the XCal for Xios or even his own Turbo/Superchargers with the tune on them. He emails it to the customer a couple days later. This allows them to get the kit out the door as quick as possible and Randy can work on writing the tune while its shipping.
If you look at the web page for Xios, it says that the provided xcal2 will have a tune from FS on it when shipped.

Xios Motorworks is pleased to announce the release of our new SVT Focus turbo kit! A long time in development, this kit has been designed from scratch to offer the best quality and performance possible, all while allowing customers the option of retaining their stock catalytic converter. Some of the kits features are:

• Polished stainless steel tuned equal length turbo manifold

• Front Mount Intercooler (24" X 5.5" X 3.5" core)

• Garrett GT28RS (Disco Potato) ceramic ball-bearing turbo

• 2.5" Mandrel bent stainless steel downpipe

• Mandrel bent polished stainless steel intercooler pipes

• Bosch uprated bypass valve from Porsche 911 turbo

• Dual High Performance electric SPAL fans

• Software tuned by FocusSport™ on supplied SCT XCAL2

• Siemes-Deka 60lb/hr Fuel Injectors

• Denso Iridium 1-step colder spark plugs

• SVO Mustang 2.3L turbo PCV Valve

• 50+ page color installation manual

• And all other parts needed for installation.

Note: This kit has been designed so that the turbo sits high enough to drain via gravity removing the need for an oil return pump.

While our tune is still being perfected, our most recent numbers are 294hp and 266tq at the wheels with 12.5psi! Click the dyno sheet above.



Pricing:

Xios Motorworks SVT Turbo kit: $4449.99



OR

Click here to place a $1000.00 deposit and secure the introductory price. You will then have 2 months to pay off the balance. Once full payment is received, your kit will be shipped out. Email us here if you'd like more information.


as proof: http://www.xiosmotorworks.com/xios_svt_focus_turbo.html

Another question? Why if the customer involved is so miffed, hasn't he/she said anything about it? Why is it that Tom you feel that it is your fight?

FS was up front with the entire situation.

How can you possibly think that a $200 mail order tune is going to cover a custom dyno tune?

Why do you think FS is responsible for that?

The discount/refund was offered up front for the tuneless SCT. End of story.

lemme start with why are you on this site Scion boy?

also let me go into another thing. breach of contract. as promised by Xios and FS there would be a tune included with the kit. there was not. breach of contract and california law states this very very very clearly. its incredibly cut and dry.

FS is just a shitty company doing shitty things once again. dude you really dont need to be on this site. theres no need for you to be stirring up trouble.

FS was up front with the entire situation.

How can you possibly think that a $200 mail order tune is going to cover a custom dyno tune?

Why do you think FS is responsible for that?

The discount/refund was offered up front for the tuneless SCT. End of story.


The customer asked for the tune from FS. It was not given.

It's not a "mail order tune" The tune was developed on a dyno - so it's a dyno tune, as well as having all issues resolved for the specific car fixed through the customer datalogging and sending the datalogs back to Randy to make the tune specific to that car. That is equivalent to a "Dyno tune".

Another question? Why if the customer involved is so miffed, hasn't he/she said anything about it? Why is it that Tom you feel that it is your fight?

The customer is in the military as well as taking college classes, has not had the time to respond. Tom, is taking care of his customer, As is Xios.

Xios is a customer of FS, but is being screwed by FS...

lemme start with why are you on this site Scion boy?

also let me go into another thing. breach of contract. as promised by Xios and FS there would be a tune included with the kit. there was not. breach of contract and california law states this very very very clearly. its incredibly cut and dry.

FS is just a shitty company doing shitty things once again. dude you really dont need to be on this site. theres no need for you to be stirring up trouble.

I have been tuning and working on Focuses since day one. I bought my sedan in March of 2000. I can take a Focus apart with my eyes closed in an hour. Why does it matter that I own a Scion now? I still work on plenty of Focuses. I have almost 8 years invested in this car. So please...sit the hell down. You want history? Where were you when the focus guys communicated through email back in 1999? Where were you when ClubFocus first started?

I have watched Tom tear his reputation apart for years because all he does is stir the pot. I really have no other issue with the man...in fact...I have met him before.

I will go to whatever site I choose. I love the Focus. But now I remember why I dont come to Focus Fanatics. No respect for anyone here whatsoever.

Please PM me if you want more of a Focus history lesson...I will be glad to school you.

[idea]

Like I stated before, its really none of FS's business who has the car or who is installing it. Their end of the deal is to supply the tune for a customer that has paid for the kit.

Like I stated before, its really none of FS's business who has the car or who is installing it. Their end of the deal is to supply the tune for a customer that has paid for the kit.

No its not. The customer had been told verbally before this all happened. Why should it change?

Someone question him.

No its not. The customer had been told verbally before this all happened. Why should it change?

Someone question him.


Hello "Red-SE-00" (moderator on FJ)...


Once it's the customers kit - there is no law against him taking it where he pleases. It was paid for and all but a done deal. FS failed to uphold their end of the deal with Xios.

Hello "Red-SE-00" (moderator on FJ)...


Once it's the customers kit - there is no law against him taking it where he pleases. It was paid for and all but a done deal. FS failed to uphold their end of the deal with Xios.

If I could have had my name changed on FJ...I would have...LOL!

I have been tuning and working on Focuses since day one. I bought my sedan in March of 2000. I can take a Focus apart with my eyes closed in an hour. Why does it matter that I own a Scion now? I still work on plenty of Focuses. I have almost 8 years invested in this car. So please...sit the hell down. You want history? Where were you when the focus guys communicated through email back in 1999? Where were you when ClubFocus first started?

I have watched Tom tear his reputation apart for years because all he does is stir the pot. I really have no other issue with the man...in fact...I have met him before.

I will go to whatever site I choose. I love the Focus. But now I remember why I dont come to Focus Fanatics. No respect for anyone here whatsoever.

Please PM me if you want more of a Focus history lesson...I will be glad to school you.

[idea]

means nothing. you could have built the damn car from the factory. respect is earned. i dont know what it is you older people think that because of your age that respect is handed to you. its shown and its earned. respect isnt free.

i frankly dont care where you came from.

for me this sitaution comes down to this. FS breached a legally binding contract and did not supply the consumer with the appropriate parts. therefore FS should be held liable for the tune. thats the simplest explaination.

dude i really dont care who you are. you could be henry freaking ford himself. i wont show you respect until you earn it. this isnt an automatic thing. get a clue.[confused]

Theres nothing stated anywhere with Xios that you cant take your car to certian places, thats such BS. Benny probably told him what he did because he knows about the bad blood between Randy and Tom. IT DOESNT MATTER, he is the paying customer of a kit that states clearly that it comes supplied with a sctII and FS tune. Its up to the CUSTOMER as to what or where he wants to take the car. Thats all that matters. Theres no business that would state that you can buy our kit, but you cant do certian things with it or we will not supply you part of the "advertised" kit components.

At least Xios has done a good job in taking care of the situation.

^^agreed. FS is being shady. honestly. had Benny installed this kit himself there is no way short of a tow truck to get it to toms. what would have happened in that situation? FS or Xios would likely be liable because the appropriate parts were not supply to make it a complete kit.

means nothing. you could have built the damn car from the factory. respect is earned. i dont know what it is you older people think that because of your age that respect is handed to you. its shown and its earned. respect isnt free.

i frankly dont care where you came from.

for me this sitaution comes down to this. FS breached a legally binding contract and did not supply the consumer with the appropriate parts. therefore FS should be held liable for the tune. thats the simplest explaination.

dude i really dont care who you are. you could be henry freaking ford himself. i wont show you respect until you earn it. this isnt an automatic thing. get a clue.[confused]

I care about our community. And that is all that matters to me.

Thank you for expressing your interest in me.

[poke]

No respect? I give respect even to those that dont deserve it. And I also have been building these cars since day 1. FF is a great place and takes care of the good people on here.

why on earth would i express interest in you dude? gimme a break. i dont care what you do or did for a living.

youre supporting a shady company that did a stupid thing. its irreprehensible IMO.

No respect? I give respect even to those that dont deserve it. And I also have been building these cars since day 1. FF is a great place and takes care of the good people on here.

i repsect ppl that show me respect and earn it. tom, mike, john, and a few others on here have earned it. this guy has not. no offense bro.

Theres nothing stated anywhere with Xios that you cant take your car to certian places, thats such BS. Benny probably told him what he did because he knows about the bad blood between Randy and Tom. IT DOESNT MATTER, he is the paying customer of a kit that states clearly that it comes supplied with a sctII and FS tune. Its up to the CUSTOMER as to what or where he wants to take the car. Thats all that matters. Theres no business that would state that you can buy our kit, but you cant do certian things with it or we will not supply you part of the "advertised" kit components.


I agree.. [limp] [popcorn]

after reading this post it make me feel mad...im looking into buy this turbo kit and with all the hoops i have to go through to get it tuned...doesnt seem like its worth the money...if randy is so worried about loseing his tune then why did he parter up with Xios in the first place...tom if i buy this kit and dont get the tune because i take it to the "wrong" shop would you be willing to sale the one you made for the kit? i live on the west coast and FS/ Randy just lost respect from me and the money i was thinking about sending their way for parts

Yes this tune will be for ANYONE at any shop and it will come NOT in a .ll3 file so the guy that buys it can open it and tune with it or to be used in your PRP but you have to promise not to give out my super secret special tuning I wouldnt want any one to get there hands on it , you know I have special software no one else has

I will offer this to Xios but thats up to them

Tom

Smells like bullshit to me.

If a customer buys a "FULL" Xios kit it should come with a tune regaurdless of who is installing/dynoing it.... I have to give props to Xios for the way they are handling the situation.

Before anyone says anything ..... I dont care who see the tunes I do... I'm not trying to make money from mine... I just like tuning.....

Slighty Off Topic..... I'll be turning out my first Turbo tune for another car besides mine this week!!!!!!

syntheticGT , Let me ask you this . Does it say on the Xios site that "• Software tuned by FocusSport™ on supplied SCT XCAL2 UNLESS you take it to Focus-Power ?

Tom

awww...the thread at FJ got locked (again) already.

I wanted to hear from XIOS themselves when they got off the airplane.

^x2 on xios, as well as Deevlo the customer...

I have watched Tom tear his reputation apart for years because all he does is stir the pot. I really have no other issue with the man...in fact...I have met him before. [idea]


If this is my "reputation" torn apart I would hat to see what it would be in good standing, I have 11 Foci here at my shop 3 on a waiting list 3 sitting in a building because they are willing to wait about 1.5 to 2 months for me to get to them and all this week is booked for tuning so I guess my "reputation" is doing just fine out of the 16 cars they cover 9 Diff states

See people like you judge me because I stir the pot as you call it or say im arrogant , I state facts , I dont hold back or sugar coat things trying not to step on peoples toes , If its pink im not going to say its red and white , Im good at what I do and Im that way because all the time I put into stuff to make sure it works properly and when i see something that is wrong like this I make sure others know about it as well

If you want your butt kissed to make you feel better that is done over at fj, If you dont like me that fine im not here for a popularity contest, I help more people with stuff then anyone on either board, I make more HP/TQ then any other Focus known, I have tuned more Focus then any other shop out there , I have paid my dues you call it arrogance I call it confidance and good at what I do

If fs is going to be selective about who gets there tune they should of posted that in the Xios add, My customer was told FLAT OUT that he wasent getting it "Because it was going to Toms" not because he was taking it to a tuning shop

Tom

^^^And that's why I am getting my car tuned by Focus-Power...and I'm not even FI!! Let me know when you get some free time Tom, can't wait to make the trip to NC. [pray]




Emanuel

So are you finished with the tuning on this car yet Tom? One of the reasons implied for not sending you the tune was to see what you could do with the Xios kit in regards to tuning it from scratch. I too am very interested to see how much power you can get out of it. Will you be posting up dyno results?

So are you finished with the tuning on this car yet Tom? One of the reasons implied for not sending you the tune was to see what you could do with the Xios kit in regards to tuning it from scratch. I too am very interested to see how much power you can get out of it. Will you be posting up dyno results?

From what deevlo told me last night, they are waiting on a replacement piece to be made for fitment issues, so it may be a week or so...

So are you finished with the tuning on this car yet Tom? One of the reasons implied for not sending you the tune was to see what you could do with the Xios kit in regards to tuning it from scratch. I too am very interested to see how much power you can get out of it. Will you be posting up dyno results?

If it is up to me ,Yes I will post the dyno but thats up to the customer , The power form tuner to tunere both working with the same software should be the same so not realy looking to make more as much as making it safe

Tom

Here is the funny part of all of this. And it has probably been mentioned. Tom was being hired to do the install only. And only hired for the install since other speed shops wanted to charge the guy 1000 plus for the install.

Install people, Tom never was intended to do a custom tune. And if thats the case, Randy could have just asked the customer to hold onto the SCT and just flash the damn car after it was finished being installed. All that "Should" follow is a quick compression and leak test to ensure the kit was properly installed.

I see it all as a lack of trust between competing firms. Happens all the time for obvious reasons. But all the customer wanted Tom to do was the install, had no intensions of Tom custom tuning. Hell, he couldnt afford another $500 for tuning ontop of the install lol. Dont blame the guy.

If Tom then decided to give the customer free tuning after the install? Hmmm. He could then get Randys custom Xios tune from the ECU.

The way I see it is tuning is basically an automotive art. Each artist has their own ways; weather programming, timing, fuel, and so forth.

In the end, what are the chances Tom would take the tune from the ECU and then basically copy and sell Randy's tune. Slim.

I think Tom and Randy need a few phone sessions. In the meantime, we could all argue about this some more. But I say....


HOW HOT IS THIS CHICK AND THIS MOVIE?!?!?

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramount_pictures/transformers/megan_fox/transformers.jpg

From what deevlo told me last night, they are waiting on a replacement piece to be made for fitment issues, so it may be a week or so...

We finished making all parts needed and the kit is all on now , need to install his clutch and LSD and then tune , will talk more about the install and thoughts about the kit in another post

Tom

Oh and I am not going to quote toms post #123 cause this thread is long already.

Tom, yea. You are arrogant, you are cocky. And no doubt you are good at what you do. Just turn it down a notch man. Take it easy! LOL

With all this badgering about FJ and FS....please for the love of God, back your shit up with some killa numbers so I can sell my JRSC/BBK. Buy the Xios, and have you install and tune the hell out of it!

Tim

It isnt arrogance or cocky its confidance in what I do , With a few small changes you will like the Xios kit

Tom

It isnt arrogance or cocky its confidance in what I do , With a few small changes you will like the Xios kit

Tom
hmmmm

[angel]

unless clint's work schedule slows down...

I trust Tom will make your Xios SVTf a monster...perhaps all of this confusion will turn out for the better!

...With a few small changes you will like the Xios kit

Tom

Just might be for me also when I go FI!!![strongman]

I feel a simple cure to this would be a change in how the "Tuning" is worded on the Xios site and who it will and who it wont go to , The way randy is talking on fj no tuner/dyno will get a Xios tune , If that is the way he wants to do his tunes that is 100% up to him and I dont have any issues with that but it needs to be stated

Again the customer wasent told he does not send these files to tuner shops he was told that a tune wouldnt be sent to Tom

Change the wording in the add and cure all the issues

Tom

damn.. the FJ thread has been unlocked for a 2nd time...[popcorn][ffrocks] [loveff] [wiggle]

Sounds like Randy thinks his tunes are worth three times their weight in gold... HA!

Wow, there's been a lot of action on this thread since the first few posts.

I've been at work (squadron) from 0630 (6:30am) until 2245 (10:30pm) so I'm a little tired; please bear with me.

----====Here's the nitty gritty====----
With a loan of X amount of dollars, the buyer "Benny" decided that it was time to go with some forced induction since the RS body pieces he was after fell through.

Upon looking at the Xios kit, and reading about all that was included, the specs that it had, and the output it boasted 'out of the box' he decided to get the kit from Xios.

Upon talking with Andreas and getting all the information straight and payment lined up, it was stated that the turbo itself was out of stock and a new one had to be acquired to send the complete kit out. Part of the Urgency of the issue was that this was 2.5 weeks prior to FunFordWeekend in Richmond, VA. Benny wanted to be able to get the kit, have it installed on the car, and show/run the SVT during the event to get publicity for both himself and for Xios (a "TURBO BY XIOS" banner was even made).

In order to expedite the process, the idea of having a "focus" professional install it might be necessary seeing as the finalization of monetary obligations and time to ship the parts would leave only a week before FFW to install the kit, along with the accessories (J&S, LSD, Clutch, Flywheel, Gauges, etc). So after payment had already been agreed upon and was posting, Benny asked Andreas if it was possible that the parts could be shipped directly to Focus-Power in NC (5.5hours away) and he could just take the car down to meet the parts. It was said that it shouldn't be a problem, but he would have to check. About 10 minutes later Andreas called back and said that Randy might have a problem with Tom (specifically) installing the kit because there's some kind of rivalry and after a few minutes of discussion Andreas said he would ask FS to be sure. When the answer was that it probably wouldn't be sent and a "refund/discount" could be applied for $450. Benny called Tom and found out that for him to do a Tune on the SVT the pricetag would be $550. Then it was stated by Tom that the price was NOT including hardware (SCT). When a rebuttle was inquired to Andreas, he said that if he were to include the hardware, then he could only discount for $200.
The new equipment on the SVT cannot be run properly, if at all, without a Tune -- so what do u do? He said to Andreas after a few more calls back and forth between both Andreas and Tom, "Nevermind, I don't want to be in the middle of some middleschool rivalry. I will try not to take it down there. I can't have the car go down there and get stuck 5.5 hours away, and I can't afford paying extra cash when I still have to pay for the install." So, the parts were requested to be sent to Benny's house (including the SCT and the Tune) so he could either get a local shop to do the install, or try and do it himself with some friends' (Focus-Illusions) help.

After the parts arrived, and as he called DTP (tuning/install/dyno shop) the price jumped to a "$1200 - $1400" charge, not counting on the actual time it takes extra, or the clutch/flywheel/LSD (please add another $800-$900 for that separate install).

With the parts in hand, the lack of cash, the impending divorce that he found himself in, an overwhelming career position in the Navy, a child, and a fulltime schedule at night for college (and thereby NO time)... he found himself in a predicament.

Even *IF* he could make the time over SEVERAL weeks to slowly do the install on his daily driver, it would never be the same as having a Pro do it, nor would it meet the Deadline for FFW.

So, seeing his only real option, he called Tom and asked if he would still do the install and if he could get it done by the following weekend -- to which Tom agreed.

Monday, after returning from dropping off the car in NC, Randy called to ask (for the third time) about how soon Benny wanted the Tune to be sent (which it had already been 4 days since he RECEIVED the parts, and almost 2wks from the initial purchase). Randy asked how far along the install was and the reply that followed was a simple and direct "The parts are kinda getting installed now. I really don't have a whole lot of time to check on it or mess with it because I'm pretty busy w/ all my personal issues I have going on." It was neither stated nor denied that Tom was the one doing the install. Randy said he would have the Tune ready in an email before the end of the afternoon that day and the conversation pleasantly ended.

A day and a half later, without still having received a 'custom' tune that Rand was working on... Benny gets a call from Andreas. The call was to inquire about why Tom was working on the car when he wasn't supposed to be. Tom had called Andreas with a few engineering/fitment questions that HAD to be answered. It was replied that Tom WASN'T supposed to be doing it, but due to the circumstances, it was the safest and fastest way to get it completed.

So, after a two weeks of being at Tom's, the pieces were finally replaced and/or replicated (thanks a ton to Andreas' support and customer service) and the kit went on. It was then that the issue of a Tune had to be addressed again.

Benny called Andreas and said, "Hey, look man... I still need a tune. The car isn't going to run without one, and I paid for one that was supposed to come with the kit at the time of shipping." Andreas really didn't have a response other than what had already been discussed because it was Randy that had the physical control of the tune and wouldn't send it. Andreas offered the $200 off the price again, but (with no disrespect to XIOS) it wasn't fair. "The kit comes with a Tune, and I'm not getting one. I've been told that the kit has been sent to numerous other people for a self install and a few shops have installed it too (concerning fitment) and the tunes were sent to these people. So what's the difference? I should get what I paid for, and if I don't because of some personal vendetta between two opposite coast tuners was to blame, then the person holding merchandise should be responsible. Either I get the tune I am supposed to already have, or it should be THAT person that pays for me to get a custom tune from somewhere else to use on my car so that 'intellectual property' doesn't fall into the hands of 'evil'."

Andreas suggested that Benny call Randy and see what could be worked out.

So Randy was called and from the getgo, the tone and attitude was a complete 180. The same things were said and Randy didn't want to send a tune. He said that "I don't want to send my tune to someone who is just going to extract it and downtalk my tune, or tweak it and resell it as his own. I don't want to do business with someone like that."
Benny told him that it really didn't matter about a personal conflict and that Randy wasn't doing business with Tom -- he was doing business with Benny. Randy said that it "was too bad that you're just unhappy about the situation because you tried to pull the wool over [Randy's] eyes and deceive FS and now you aren't getting a tune because of [Tom]."
Benny kept telling Randy that it didn't matter about Tom, because Tom didn't pay for the kit/tune and why was the tune sent to other people who were having it installed at a local shop of their choice but he couldn't get one because of it being installed by Tom. He said, "If you're going to keep talking about doing business then do the business and provide the product that was promised and paid for.

There was a lot more ..... [adjective] [adjective] "conversation" about the issue, but it was all childish/irrelevant (to include trying to get Benny to agree that Tom was going to take the Tune off and use it/make fun of it because Tom had done it before). But it boiled down to one thing:

Desipte how they came to this point, or who was tricking/stalling whom... that a Tune was required and not provided. Randy said to Benny that he won't (not can't) help him and he will not be receiving a tune; furthermore that there was nothing else to be done and the conversation ended with "I'll talk to Andreas about seeing if you can get a bigger discount from him. I'll have him call you back because I have nothing else to say." and followed by an immediate dialtone.

After about 20 minutes, Andreas called Benny back and with a little discussion and leniency, Andreas offered to refund out of his own pocket $500 for a tune to replace the one that Randy was refusing to get.

This is terrible considering that Andreas has to pay Randy some sort of fee/price for including his tune in the kit (which was confirmed by Andreas but an exact $ was not mentioned). So, in essence...
Benny is out of a tune that he should have gotten.
Andreas is out of the cost for the FS tune that is now not being included.
Andreas is also out on an additional cost of the difference for a quality tune since his customer wasn't being given all that he should have been.

and that's that. And if you are still unclear on how I know all of this -- it is because I am Benny.

*Yeah, Mr. "I wonder why the customer hasn't posted and why Tom thinks he can take it upon himself to speak for the guy" I'm talkin to you. 1) Read the first page, I have a post there. 2) Yeah, what a terrible guy Tom is -- sticking up for his customers and focus enthusiasts like that. What a b*stard.

Feel bad for ya man...truly a bummer to save for something like this, and not be able to enjoy it because of one person........[:(]

My final opinion is this:

Randy's business ethics are terrible. I cannot and will not now, or ever, support Focus-Sport or Randy as a professional or a credible businessman.

Andreas provides an OUTSTANDING kit, and I highly recommend it if you are looking at getting a Turbo install. He was nothing but helpful, understanding, courteous, and flexible in every aspect of the situation/transaction and I will always support the Xios kit. The only downfall is the "third party" that he has to rely on for a "complete" kit.

You'll be able to see what comes out of it because we will post a Dyno of the results.

Furthermore, at the unfortunate expense of Xiosmotorworks, I'm GLAD that Randy was a prick about the whole situation because now I will be getting a quality tune rather than the "adequate" mailorder 'custom' tune from F-S.


Get a turbo! Buy Xios! Look for another tuner from the start and save up the money for a custom tune from someone else that actually wants to help the customer.


It has been said that "Randy finally offered a $500 refund...." or that "Randy got Andreas to give a refund..." and that's not true. Xios did it on their own and I commend them. Randy didn't do shit. If he had, he could have come to that solution within the first 5 minutes of our phone call and skipped this whole entire mess... but he didn't... and it's not coming out of his moneypot.

Xios FTW
Randy FTL!

Well, it looks like this subject has been debated to the limits.

I'll leave this thread up until tomorrow night so anyone that wants to can get the last word in can do so.

Since what is discussed here probably won't change the outcome of the situation, it really isn't necessary to debate on this subject further.

Malakai, TurboTom or whomever is involved, you guys are welcome to start a new thread and give us an update on your progress, I for one am interested in seeing the final results.

First let me start by saying that I think this issue has gotten way out of control. I just arrived in the east coast after a long day of being re-routed to different states and airports due to storms and, although it is late and I’m dead tired, I think that some issues have been misunderstood and need clarification.

1.) Neither Xios nor FocusSport made any money on this kit. With the combination of introductory pricing, time, expedited shipping costs that were not billed to the customer and the $500 refund, this kit actually sold for well below our cost. Also, Randy only charges me for kits that include his tune file so if you’re not getting a tune, Randy isn’t charging me any money.

2.) This customer was informed prior to the kits shipment, for reasons mentioned earlier, that the tune would not be sent to him if the kit was being installed at FP. Instead, he would be refunded $200. We never refused to send him a tune without offering the $200 compensation. While the $200 offered may not be equivalent to the cost of a custom dyno tune from somewhere else, we consider the software more of a mail order tune as the adjustments necessary to each individual car will be minor and less time consuming. If we refunded every customer who didn’t want the tune file $500, this kit and Xios would not be around much longer. It also should be noted that this $200 amount is actually more than we pay Randy and FocusSport for the software for each kit.

3.) Our website text does not constitute a legally binding contract. While we do plan on including every item listed, we reserve the right to exclude a tune if a monetary amount of equal value TO THE TUNE OMITTED is substituted. This is especially true if the issue of including a refund instead of a tune is discussed specifically prior to the shipment of the kit, as in this case. Granted the payment was already received but that does not mean it couldn’t be instantly refunded and kit shipment cancelled if the customer requested it. That said, I will be sure to edit the site to be more specific when it comes to mentioning these issues when I return.

Finally, you should know that this kit would probably never have existed without Randy’s help. His agreeing to tune the kit, even as a potential competitor, was pivotal in my decision to continue designing it as I was not interested in producing another tuner kit and didn’t have the skill of confidence to tune it myself. Since then, the amount of time and effort that he has put into this kit, at minimal and often no cost to me, has impressed me and all of the other Xios customer’s that have had dealing’s with him thus far.

There is more to say but it’s already almost 4am so that’s all I can say tonight. I don't want to create issues here, just state the facts so as to avoid any confusion. I’m currently on the east coast helping out a customer and am unsure whether I will have internet access over the next few days. I’ll try to check in when I can. Thanks [burnout]
Andreas@Xios

BTW, ignore the url at the bottom of these posts. Apparently the computer I'm using has a funny little virus [:(]

Mod's, feel free to remove the url

Thanks for Everyone setting the record straight...

Andreas, what is your personal opinion on Randy not sending the tune b/c the kit is being installed by F-P?

Well I guess randy has to have an excuse and his is NOW that he dont send files out to "competitors" I wasent told that by Xios I was told he wouldnt send the file to me Focus-Power Benny when talking to Xios and FS was also told the file wouldnt go to Tom

Never anything explained about not sending files to "competitors" Which has now come down to "I will judge each situation on a case by case basis"

The phrase "competitors" has now turned to
"example: I buy the kit, have my enginebuilder/tuner install it. since he builds turbo V8's mainly, it would not be a problem to get the tune to him, right?"
(THE ANSWER FROM RANDY WAS )
For the most part yes. I will judge each situation on a case by case basis.

Why wasent this stated in the begining, That I could of understood , I have NO problem with Randy not wanting to send out files none at all that understandable

But when a customer is told that he WONT GET A FILE BECAUSE YOUR AT TOMS is BS and that is what I was told by Xios and the customer was told by Xios and randy

I dont need or want randys files all turbo kits installed need to go to a dyno to have the AF checked and to make sure the timing and many other things ar right , a lot can be told by looking at the dyno graph.Mail order tunes are good to get you up and running they should never be used as the final tune

The liability a shop takes to tell some one to "Go log a WOT run in 3rd gear and get that log to me" this customer turnes away and hits and kills a passanger or another driver would be insane

My gripe on this all along was the point that a customer WAS getting screwed for the sole reason his SVT came to my shop

Tom

So is this case closed?!? No more forum bashing....please. [thankyou]

It's crazy that there are people that can be that paranoid and still function..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedOften

I also know, that if Randy had said, "I'll only give you the tune, if you don't give Tom access to it..." None of this would ahve happened.


I don't need to single out Tom, but that is my policy - no files sent out to competing Focus tuners. If that wasn't understood by Benny then that is between him and XIOS. I made it perfectly clear on my end from day one.


yet...


Quote:
Originally Posted by geostef
What if Randy gave the tune, Tom installs the kit. The car is weak somewhere they dont notice/or there is a minor installation error and the engine blows...Wait to see then what would have happened...
so obviously you cant blame FS 100% ...its a difficult situation.




That is just one reason why I don't send my files out. If something happens, who is to blame? And how can anyone prove it? Its just another risk I'm not excited about taking.


So that means he probably shouldn't send his tune out to anyone huh?

What a crock of crap. Randy is clearly in the wrong here. Xios is questionable at best.

Seems that Xios should have Tom do a tune for them, because Tom will send the kit to anybody.

I just read Randy's response over on FJ, and ive edited this post accordingly. I respect what he said, and understand where hes coming from. Now that i heard Tom AND Randy's side, id say all people involved are somewhat at fault.

I dont want to be one of those ppl that post and take sides and just spew BS about something i have no idea about.

So i will end it that this whole thing is just one HUGE miscommunication on everyone's part, however it sounds like mostly the customer's part.

Now that im a little more informed, I still respect Tom and Randy's business ethics, and take back most of what i said 100 or so posts ago...

I don’t think anyone has mentioned this, but the Focus community is a rather small one compared to let’s say Honda, when a couple of our best tuners are at war with each other—we as Focus enthusiast are the losers, we would be much better served if these individuals think less of themselves, their monetary
gains, & egos to focus on improving a dying Focus environment.

The customer seems happy that he does not have to fork out more money and that was a big issue to him,

I understand full Randys position about not wanting to send out his tunes, There his and that fine didnt want it anyway, If this was just explained to me like this and to benny like this none of this would of happened. But it wasent "I dont want my tunes going to Tom" is a far cry from I dont send out my tunes to other dynos/tuners

I will offer to anyone that gets a Xios kit a street tune to start up and get to a dyno with then the Dyno/tuner can copy the tune and make the changes he feels is needed to make it safe , I have other Xios kit coming for install and in a few months will have tunes in both Diablo Predator and SCT so 95% of all tuner shops will be covered. This will be your tune to use for your Xios kit

If Xios is interested in this thats fine if not people can contact me for the tune 150.00

From the emails I have got over this it has opened up a lot of eyes about they wont get a tune for there SVT either if it goes to there local dyno and for nothing else it may keep this from happening to some one else

All a misunderstanding ? NO. The customer is happier and future customers are wiser thats the big thing

Tom

I think we should end this thread on that note [:)]

I think we should end this thread on that note [:)]

best post in this whole thread, i just posted the same thing on FJ


if you dont like FocusSport dont buy there product, same goes for Focus Power if you dont like them dont buy there stuff. There is always other people that will buy from them. This thread on both forums should have never come up.

best post in this whole thread, i just posted the same thing on FJ


if you dont like FocusSport dont buy there product, same goes for Focus Power if you dont like them dont buy there stuff. There is always other people that will buy from them. This thread on both forums should have never come up.

not true.

this thread should have been brought to the attention of the community buying parts from either retailer. issues with retailers need to be made known. otherwise people would blindly follow...hence the internet and freedom of information. this thread needs to be here because people need to be aware of whats going on with companies in this segment of the market. especially two big names like FS and FP. the issue is that people should be making and forming their own opinion and not just going with whatever. personally i hate focussport and i will discourage anyone from buying from them. but my mind has been made up way before this thread, it just further solidifies my idea.

Maybe Xios could offer the kit without the tune for $3999. That way you would have the choice as to who tunes the car. Now that would be something good coming out of something bad!

not true.

this thread should have been brought to the attention of the community buying parts from either retailer. issues with retailers need to be made known. otherwise people would blindly follow...hence the internet and freedom of information. this thread needs to be here because people need to be aware of whats going on with companies in this segment of the market. especially two big names like FS and FP. the issue is that people should be making and forming their own opinion and not just going with whatever. personally i hate focussport and i will discourage anyone from buying from them. but my mind has been made up way before this thread, it just further solidifies my idea.

who's high horse are you riding on.. your just a rotten egg that should of been destroyed. [hatchet] [mecry] [hah]

^woah, that was a little harsh... really, whats the point of your post? were aloud to express our opinion here. why resort to name calling or whatever the hell your post means.

Threads like this need to exist and not be swept into some dark corner or erased completely. This is important information; if you buy the Xios kit, the included tune is only good if you're having your dyno tuning done by Focus Sport, or if you're crazy enough to drive around at full boost on a base tune. That pretty much means if you want your car dyno tuned and you don't live on the west coast you're pretty much throwing away whatever they charge extra for the FS tune.

who's high horse are you riding on.. your just a rotten egg that should of been destroyed. [hatchet] [mecry] [hah]

wtf? [dunno]

who do you think you are bro?[mad]

one im not on a high horse. but if im paying 4k+ for a turbo kit i wanna know EXACTLY what im getting....[idea]

the miscommunication happened and it was no ones fault, but people need to know the facts and who they are buying from.

[sing]

you ignorant prick. why would you say threads like this shouldnt be started? people have a right to know.

Thanks for showing your age.

The retailer DOES NOT have to do anything they do not want to do.

A $200 refund was offered for the tuneless programmer. End of story.

does that me ford can take your car away because they dont think you should have it, even tho you already paid for it?
maybe microsoft should pull your software just because they own it and don't want you using it. at least microsoft offers code to build programs on that are compatible with windows...

Like I stated before, its really none of FS's business who has the car or who is installing it. Their end of the deal is to supply the tune for a customer that has paid for the kit.

+1

I work for apple, but when I go out and buy a Dell, Microsoft can't say 'oh, well he should be able to program the computer himself, if he's so good'. You don't get to pick and choose who buys your software when you attach it to another company like that, and still expect to do good business.

who's high horse are you riding on.. your just a rotten egg that should of been destroyed. [hatchet] [mecry] [hah]

Wow... another pearl of wisdom that you've posted in this thread.

What a douche bag.

I agree with SKA... its part of the kit and should be included in the kit that XIOS (not FS) provides no matter who installs it.

Look everyone uses the SAME software for tuning... there cant be that much difference from one tune to another.

Personally I think Xios should have their Xcals with the tunes already on them at their place that way they can be sent out without any issues.

So... if someone want to get this kit and have me install it would they get a tune since I have the abilitly to do my own tunes???

haha, you guys crack me up. you personally i hate focussport and i will discourage anyone from buying from them. Thats more obscene then my statement.

who's high horse are you riding on.. your just a rotten egg that should of been destroyed. [hatchet] [mecry] [hah]


This thread deserves to exist so people know before goign through all the BS that happened that Randy won't allow his xios tune to be run on a car that is having it's kit installed by a shop that is focus oriented.. I doubt very many people but maybe a handful of very few select people knew that... And as stated throughout the thread, no where on the Xios website does it state that. I think that Xios didn't even realize the extent that Randy goes to protect his "intellectual property" in the beginnning of this situation...

so everyone learned from the situation... [thankyou]

haha, you guys crack me up. you personally i hate focussport and i will discourage anyone from buying from them. Thats more obscene then my statement.

uh.. what are you trying to say..??? Looks like you miss typed a few things there...[hihi]

haha, you guys crack me up. you personally i hate focussport and i will discourage anyone from buying from them. Thats more obscene then my statement.

you hate focussport....check your sig newb! god dude, you are just here to stir trouble and be a jackass.