[poke] So last night I went to the local Circle K, and the teller ask me if I raced. I jus kinda smiled and said nah not really (FAT LIE). So as I walk out he does too smoking a [:)][:)][:)]. I look over at a white civic with some clean white/chrome rims. So I asked him if that was his ride, and he said yeah, and its fast as hell! I have yet to lose to a civic including the 06 w/ EX&IN. So I ask him what kind of engine do you have under there? K-series. "K-20 or K-24, he hesitates at my knowledge, and says k-20 I asked him from what car did you swap it from? He says a newer Prelude. [gunfire] "bull shit" I know no k20 comes stock in the ludes. So I say we need to race one day. Ultimately will his, if he has, k20 w/ exhaust and rims get my d20? My car and i are quick.

Ah yes, the elusive K-series Preludes... the Prelude block, at least in the last revision, was the H22, and its a strong engine if heavy. Exactly how fast it would make the car I'm not sure; BUT, if it's either an H22 or a K20, you're most likely screwed by a long shot. Unless he did a K20A3 swap, which I can't see anybody doing...

Wait, I did research and found no preludes with the k20. And the h22 does not have i-vtec its just a vtec. What year lude comes w/ a k20, because even the sh prelude does not have this engine. And that is pretty much the top of the prelude food chain. This is fact.

As far as I know, the K-series are the engines from the RSX type S....and the Civic is lighter, so it's going to be pretty quick. I don't know the exact specs, but I've heard of some other k-series swaps and they are not slow.

if he has either the h22 or the k20 your screwed..

ya man these ppl and their fuqin honda's. A guy at my work has a late 90's model maybe a 95 or so. He sad he would straight up kick my ass he fest up his civic had a v-tec motor, I think it would be close atleast. the only mods he has that i know of is exhaust and he has a bad clutch from wat he says. If this is true do ya'll think my d20 5spd ses with magnaflow 2.25 exhaust from the back up to the factory cat.......... -the lunch box could run him?

I got my ass spanked by a H22 swaped civic hatch in my mild modded d20, I hope you did not make too big an ass of yourself b/c if he is telling the truth your about to eat your words.

If the guy said he got a k series motor out of a prelude.. he's [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]g retarded. K's are only in RSX's and in the new Si.

The k20 and h22 are both very potent motors and you'll be lucky to stay within a length if he does actually have one..

No, I know from personal experience (freind w/ h22 accord) that the h22 engine is beasial. Now I have spanked vtec's left and right from civic 02 si to cls. I am not worried about that. But a k20 w/ i-vtec would be an issue one I don't think the focus and i could handle. The k20 from the rsx and newest s.i's are fast with around 200 hp, and a smooth torque curve around 155 or so. The focus strength against imports is its torque. The k20 will take that advantage and throw his hp in the mix. Which will spell doom. Now the ultimate question is was he trying to bullshit me or what. EX: the k20 out of a prelude.(no such thing)

^^^There's a good possibility of it, as if he really did swap a K20 in, he would probably know enought to know what kind of a car it came out of.

Nevertheless, an H22 or K20 would probably spank a mostly stock Focus.[spank]

K's are only in RSX's and in the new Si.




and accords, CRVs, TSX, and other stuff i am probably forgetting.

hmm whats a k20 engine put out hp/tq wise?

hmm whats a k20 engine put out hp/tq wise?

depends on which variation of k20 you are talking. anywhere from 160 to 220(i think) horsepower.

Also, don't forget that the bigass chrome rims on that honda adds horse power, atleast 10 hp anyway.

lol

dude the k20 is not that impressive. my friend had a 03 RSXS k20 6 speed. now dont get me wrong this was a nice little car that had some good pull. but he has a 03 2.0 zetec zx3 now with intake and exhaust and both cars turned the same 1/8 mile times. he never ran the RSXS in 1/4 mile but his foci runs high 15s. the rsx would probobly wax the foci in 1/4 mile but i dont think it would be that bad. now you could build a bad k series engine pretty easily by taking a k24 out of a new accord and mating it with an i-vtec head off a RSXS or SI and putting some boost to it. k20's dont scare my SVT.

I ran a, I think it was a, 2001 or something like that, RSX. Spanked it. In fact, the guy blew his motor trying to run me and my free breathing SVT. I believe he had a history of over reving and he was over reving when he raced me. I also don't think he knew how to drive the damn thing.

And he even had those big chrome rims that add HP. I thought it was pretty funny. By the time he limped back to my house, there was clouds of blue smoke comming from his exhaust pipe. I already had a beer in my hand, toastig the kill.

^^^lol

Idk...I think the combination of the k20 in a lightweight body is going to walk all over a relatively stock ZX3.

a new Si will run mid 14's with just an intake...
the 02-05 Si's were practically a joke stock.. but it is a different series k20 (k20a3) then the new Si's.
the RSX has a k20z2 and then new civics have a k20z3.
it takes a SVT with full bolt ons to keep up to a stock Si/RSX

yeah i wont have to worry about any ricers coming up and racing me-- i dont race anyway but its nice to know you have the beat without actually doing it--lol

I seem to recall the K series motor being a completely different arrangement than previous Honda motors, with the engine on the passenger side of the car now, and spinning in a different direction than the previous D, B, and H series motors. I also recall that the Prelude was discontinued right around the time period that the K series motors started showing up. (02 RSX, Civic Si IIRC).

a new Si will run mid 14's with just an intake...
the 02-05 Si's were practically a joke stock.. but it is a different series k20 (k20a3) then the new Si's.
the RSX has a k20z2 and then new civics have a k20z3.
it takes a SVT with full bolt ons to keep up to a stock Si/RSX

Yep, on all counts, except didn't earlier RSX-S have a K20A2, and switched to the Z2 in 2004 or so? I lurk on an EP3 site, so I come on this sort of information.

Anyway, the only H22 dyno I've seen online was in the high 150's, though that sounds low; and K20A2 dynos around 180whp that I've seen. 150whp in a lighter chassis will give you trouble. 180whp will give you hell. However, unless he walked into a garage with a fist full of money and said "Swap in what's cool these days", he's probably running a stock engine. We know more about Hondas than he seems to.

[poke] So last night I went to the local Circle K, and the teller ask me if I raced. I jus kinda smiled and said nah not really (FAT LIE). So as I walk out he does too smoking a [:)][:)][:)]. I look over at a white civic with some clean white/chrome rims. So I asked him if that was his ride, and he said yeah, and its fast as hell! I have yet to lose to a civic including the 06 w/ EX&IN. So I ask him what kind of engine do you have under there? K-series. "K-20 or K-24, he hesitates at my knowledge, and says k-20 I asked him from what car did you swap it from? He says a newer Prelude. [gunfire] "bull shit" I know no k20 comes stock in the ludes. So I say we need to race one day. Ultimately will his, if he has, k20 w/ exhaust and rims get my d20? My car and i are quick.

call his bluff, whoop his ass.

[:p] We know more about Hondas than he seems to.

lmao....

[:p] [:p] [:p] [:p]

lol^ so true- i actually owned a honda crx with 325,000 miles on it-- it tran like a champ and was a fun car to drive-- they need to bring back the crx-- i think somone at my work whos into hondas said they are supposed to-- anyone know?

^^^I think I read in Motor Trend that they are planning a two seat/hatchback configured car, but it's going to be more upscale than the CRX...more creature comforts and money. But, I think it's more a prototype right now than a possible production car.

that could be interesting

Any k-series based engine is going to rock the focus unless you're modded. His car is most likely quicker and putting out better power.

However

If he made up a car it was swapped from, then obviously he didn't do the swap. And IF he did, a swap is a huge investment of money and time.. so he most likely put a ton of other shit into it as well.. I.E headers, exhaust, intake, rebuilt internals, possibly a turbo of S/C'er

its not that expensive --they are cheaper then our engines and easier to find just depends on the type and the year you are looking for

a k-series swap is ALOT,my buddy just has his 97 civic coupe doen,total of over 7k for the COMPLETE swap.motor,tranny,wiring,fuel,etc.,etc.

yes k series swaps in older cars are high. the reason is the entire engine and trans is backwards from the older engines. b,d, and h series. the exhaust exits by the firewall and intake is in front of the engine near the fan whereas older engines exhausted out the front by the radiator and intake was back by the firewall. this also means that the transmission is on the opposite side of the car and the engine turns a completely different direction than the stock one would.

yes k series swaps in older cars are high. the reason is the entire engine and trans is backwards from the older engines. b,d, and h series. the exhaust exits by the firewall and intake is in front of the engine near the fan whereas older engines exhausted out the front by the radiator and intake was back by the firewall. this also means that the transmission is on the opposite side of the car and the engine turns a completely different direction than the stock one would.

i would just stating for the engine-- not the swap cost

just buying an engine wont do crap for you if you cant put it in the car you want. he could get a good deal on a 350 chevy for a few hundred bux but if he dont have the 10 grand to do a rear wheel conversion then it dont do much good...

Thank you all.........I recently also purchased new toyos, and a sts. Very noticable imporvement. I think I am going to take him up. After all he works at Circle K. I make more than he does. (fact) And if what you are saying is true then his g-station wage is not going to cut a $7k-10k engine swap. Looks like another kill. But I will feel bad for beating a wanna be k20.

D20[boxface] K20 wanna be. HA HA HA

just buying an engine wont do crap for you if you cant put it in the car you want. he could get a good deal on a 350 chevy for a few hundred bux but if he dont have the 10 grand to do a rear wheel conversion then it dont do much good...

thank you ol wise one- lol

^^^I think I read in Motor Trend that they are planning a two seat/hatchback configured car, but it's going to be more upscale than the CRX...more creature comforts and money. But, I think it's more a prototype right now than a possible production car.


They do have a modern CRX... they just call it the Fit. Now they just need to come out with a Fit Si.

if the fit is the new crx i would throw up- i think they have a real new crx that they are coming out with in 2008 - 2009

Say RRRRAAAAARRRRR to the revival of the hondasaur the C-RX soon or maybe to be the honda remix

Yeah...if the Fit were the new CRX....I would actually prefer to buy the 2008 Fofo, as it looks like an award winning design compared to the Fit...

My honda friends know a local O'Reillys worker who has a black supercharged fit. I looked it over and it seems like a nice car for what it is and it's supposedly pretty quick. But I pray to God it's not the new CRX, it doesn't even remotely resemble the old ones.

hmm whats a k20 engine put out hp/tq wise?

If I remember correctly (and I may not) they are running stock around 200hp and not enough torque to tighten my lugnuts. More importantly, which K20 are you talking about?

The K20Z2 and K20A3 (methinks) were the ones that were somewhat turdish, ~145hp...the rest of them were all around 200-220hp.

Well Im a Integra owner and spend most my time under the hood of my car's. here is the break down. B series and H series looked the same just the H's were quite bigger. Both series came in Vtec and Non Vtec. The K series is an easy motor to spot. But for the real deal pop the hood and look on the left side of the block about half way down where it meets the tranny. theres the motor code stamped right there. Thats for the B and H series, the K series dont remember where its, but its easy because right off the bat it looks like a SOHC but its not, that and the intake is now at the front of the car and exhaust next to the firewall.
Series Brake Down
B16A1 1.6L Fun and cheep power! Vtec, came from the Civic Si.
B16A2 1.6L By far the second most done swap for "HONDA" corp. owners, a very good motor to do just about any thing you want to, and for cheep.
B17A1 1.7L First ever Vtec offered only from 92-93 Integra. KILLER MOTOR! aka Blacksheep, This has the block of the B18 series just as a 1.7L, and the Head of the ITR B18C3-5.
B18A1 1.8L "LS" motor. non Vtec a very strong block and good base power. I would say this is about even for the Duratec 2.0, this motor was yet another easy moded motor because they all used the same parts. (wow how smart is that)
B18B1 1.8L the second version of the "LS" motor in the Integras. it came with a few extra HP, not much. It also changed its spline lines in the tranny and honda went to the hydro trany this year.
B18C1 1.8L the Second Vtec for Acura, "GSR" just about the most sought after motor. a big bump up in the HP area as its counter part the "LS"
B18C3 1.8L Vtec, ITR motor. offered in the Integra Type R. 200HP NA car, dont know about you but some thing that can say they put more than 100HP per L is rather darn good.
B18C5 This is the JDM version of the ITR. its also around 6K stock to buy. and not as easy to find. also not street legal unless you change out some of the stock parts, exhaust, but for the most part this was the king of the B series.
B20- series, these came out in the Honda CRV. they came Vtec and non Vtec, these are a killer find because of the block. It could hold a retarded amount of boost on a stock block and could swap with the B18 series Vtec head. and so the "LS/VTEC" was born (really it started with the B18A1 and B18C3.) I would tell any stock or built up NA focus owner to stay away from the LS/VTEC races, THEY WILL WIN!
H22- series, I im not to sure about most of them. I opted out of this swap because of the over steering i would get from the torque and weight of the motor in my Teg. But they were all 2.2L and came in the Ludes. if im right there were 3 version and really they all sucked except one and it was the Vtec one. a very hard motor to come by stock and in good condition. Parts came out for these motors but not as plentaful as the B series, which started in 1989 (japan) and ended in the US in 2000 I want to say. And parts for the H series were expensive due to the lack of them.
K series, Well what can I say. 2L Vtec motor that kicked ass, Came out for Acura when they Killed the Integra and called it the RSX, in Japan its still the Integra but the RSX body. The K series is yet another motor that comes rather heavy on the good old wallet. I cant tell you how many version off the top of my head that came out but I can tell you that the Type S version was a 6 speed. (wow)

All in all if it was a H or K series I would be like, thats cool and walk away. Because when that Vtec kicks in its all over but the crying. I know in my focus I have no chance against my Integra. Sorry to say but Honda is hella smarter in how they do build ups and reskins. any one that can use the generally the same motor in MANY platforms for 11 years and make a crap load of money off it with interchangability (is that a real word) gets an A+ in my books, and ford just isnt there yet. The big blue oval isnt round enough to keep on rolling. Thats just my .02% I mean what do I know I own both cars.

Well Im a Integra owner and spend most my time under the hood of my car's. here is the break down. B series and H series looked the same just the H's were quite bigger. Both series came in Vtec and Non Vtec. The K series is an easy motor to spot. But for the real deal pop the hood and look on the left side of the block about half way down where it meets the tranny. theres the motor code stamped right there. Thats for the B and H series, the K series dont remember where its, but its easy because right off the bat it looks like a SOHC but its not, that and the intake is now at the front of the car and exhaust next to the firewall.
Series Brake Down
B16A1 1.6L Fun and cheep power! Vtec, came from the Civic Si.
B16A2 1.6L By far the second most done swap for "HONDA" corp. owners, a very good motor to do just about any thing you want to, and for cheep.
B17A1 1.7L First ever Vtec offered only from 92-93 Integra. KILLER MOTOR! aka Blacksheep, This has the block of the B18 series just as a 1.7L, and the Head of the ITR B18C3-5.
B18A1 1.8L "LS" motor. non Vtec a very strong block and good base power. I would say this is about even for the Duratec 2.0, this motor was yet another easy moded motor because they all used the same parts. (wow how smart is that)
B18B1 1.8L the second version of the "LS" motor in the Integras. it came with a few extra HP, not much. It also changed its spline lines in the tranny and honda went to the hydro trany this year.
B18C1 1.8L the Second Vtec for Acura, "GSR" just about the most sought after motor. a big bump up in the HP area as its counter part the "LS"
B18C3 1.8L Vtec, ITR motor. offered in the Integra Type R. 200HP NA car, dont know about you but some thing that can say they put more than 100HP per L is rather darn good.
B18C5 This is the JDM version of the ITR. its also around 6K stock to buy. and not as easy to find. also not street legal unless you change out some of the stock parts, exhaust, but for the most part this was the king of the B series.
B20- series, these came out in the Honda CRV. they came Vtec and non Vtec, these are a killer find because of the block. It could hold a retarded amount of boost on a stock block and could swap with the B18 series Vtec head. and so the "LS/VTEC" was born (really it started with the B18A1 and B18C3.) I would tell any stock or built up NA focus owner to stay away from the LS/VTEC races, THEY WILL WIN!
H22- series, I im not to sure about most of them. I opted out of this swap because of the over steering i would get from the torque and weight of the motor in my Teg. But they were all 2.2L and came in the Ludes. if im right there were 3 version and really they all sucked except one and it was the Vtec one. a very hard motor to come by stock and in good condition. Parts came out for these motors but not as plentaful as the B series, which started in 1989 (japan) and ended in the US in 2000 I want to say. And parts for the H series were expensive due to the lack of them.
K series, Well what can I say. 2L Vtec motor that kicked ass, Came out for Acura when they Killed the Integra and called it the RSX, in Japan its still the Integra but the RSX body. The K series is yet another motor that comes rather heavy on the good old wallet. I cant tell you how many version off the top of my head that came out but I can tell you that the Type S version was a 6 speed. (wow)

All in all if it was a H or K series I would be like, thats cool and walk away. Because when that Vtec kicks in its all over but the crying. I know in my focus I have no chance against my Integra. Sorry to say but Honda is hella smarter in how they do build ups and reskins. any one that can use the generally the same motor in MANY platforms for 11 years and make a crap load of money off it with interchangability (is that a real word) gets an A+ in my books, and ford just isnt there yet. The big blue oval isnt round enough to keep on rolling. Thats just my .02% I mean what do I know I own both cars.

how long it take you to type all that?damn...

Words.

Can't say that I don't agree with the majority of that, but as I look it over you can see how he transitions from lending helpful info about his car to raging hard-on over it by the end. Sorry, didn't mean to bash, I just found it funny.

i got sticky after reading it eeeewwww! lol j/k

Thats cool. Well I hope that parts come out and the "swap" forum comes out in FF so that i can hope to get my Zx3 up to par and see if I cant get her to stomp a mud hole in my teggy. Only thing i cant change is the size of the focus and poor aerodynamics. But Im really looking forward to playing with this motor and see if I cant keep most of he torque when i up the HP.

Well Im a Integra owner and spend most my time under the hood of my car's. here is the break down. B series and H series looked the same just the H's were quite bigger. Both series came in Vtec and Non Vtec. The K series is an easy motor to spot. But for the real deal pop the hood and look on the left side of the block about half way down where it meets the tranny. theres the motor code stamped right there. Thats for the B and H series, the K series dont remember where its, but its easy because right off the bat it looks like a SOHC but its not, that and the intake is now at the front of the car and exhaust next to the firewall.
Series Brake Down
B16A1 1.6L Fun and cheep power! Vtec, came from the Civic Si.
B16A2 1.6L By far the second most done swap for "HONDA" corp. owners, a very good motor to do just about any thing you want to, and for cheep.
B17A1 1.7L First ever Vtec offered only from 92-93 Integra. KILLER MOTOR! aka Blacksheep, This has the block of the B18 series just as a 1.7L, and the Head of the ITR B18C3-5.
B18A1 1.8L "LS" motor. non Vtec a very strong block and good base power. I would say this is about even for the Duratec 2.0, this motor was yet another easy moded motor because they all used the same parts. (wow how smart is that)
B18B1 1.8L the second version of the "LS" motor in the Integras. it came with a few extra HP, not much. It also changed its spline lines in the tranny and honda went to the hydro trany this year.
B18C1 1.8L the Second Vtec for Acura, "GSR" just about the most sought after motor. a big bump up in the HP area as its counter part the "LS"
B18C3 1.8L Vtec, ITR motor. offered in the Integra Type R. 200HP NA car, dont know about you but some thing that can say they put more than 100HP per L is rather darn good.
B18C5 This is the JDM version of the ITR. its also around 6K stock to buy. and not as easy to find. also not street legal unless you change out some of the stock parts, exhaust, but for the most part this was the king of the B series.
B20- series, these came out in the Honda CRV. they came Vtec and non Vtec, these are a killer find because of the block. It could hold a retarded amount of boost on a stock block and could swap with the B18 series Vtec head. and so the "LS/VTEC" was born (really it started with the B18A1 and B18C3.) I would tell any stock or built up NA focus owner to stay away from the LS/VTEC races, THEY WILL WIN!
H22- series, I im not to sure about most of them. I opted out of this swap because of the over steering i would get from the torque and weight of the motor in my Teg. But they were all 2.2L and came in the Ludes. if im right there were 3 version and really they all sucked except one and it was the Vtec one. a very hard motor to come by stock and in good condition. Parts came out for these motors but not as plentaful as the B series, which started in 1989 (japan) and ended in the US in 2000 I want to say. And parts for the H series were expensive due to the lack of them.
K series, Well what can I say. 2L Vtec motor that kicked ass, Came out for Acura when they Killed the Integra and called it the RSX, in Japan its still the Integra but the RSX body. The K series is yet another motor that comes rather heavy on the good old wallet. I cant tell you how many version off the top of my head that came out but I can tell you that the Type S version was a 6 speed. (wow)

All in all if it was a H or K series I would be like, thats cool and walk away. Because when that Vtec kicks in its all over but the crying. I know in my focus I have no chance against my Integra. Sorry to say but Honda is hella smarter in how they do build ups and reskins. any one that can use the generally the same motor in MANY platforms for 11 years and make a crap load of money off it with interchangability (is that a real word) gets an A+ in my books, and ford just isnt there yet. The big blue oval isnt round enough to keep on rolling. Thats just my .02% I mean what do I know I own both cars.


well you know a bit about the B motors. but a B20 also came in the 85-87 prelude SI with 160hp in a 2300lb car (also only over seas). the B20 also came in the 88-89 prelude SI which had less power then the JDM B20 in.

The H22 came in the prelude and were all Vtec(the F22 was non vtec but was not a prelude motor nor an H motor).They had between 195hp - 220 hp they were rated around 160 ft/lbs of TQ no bad for a honda.

the H23 was the non-Vtec and came in accords and 4th gen preludes.

i bet that kid had a d16 or a b16 in his car. blah K20 in a a "new" car that hasnt been made since 2001

well you know a bit about the B motors. but a B20 also came in the 85-87 prelude SI with 160hp in a 2300lb car (also only over seas). the B20 also came in the 88-89 prelude SI which had less power then the JDM B20 in.

Weren't those the "Bastard B-series" motors that were still a b-series but for whatever reason not engineered to have parts swappable with the other b-series? Or am I thinking of a different year preludes.

Weren't those the "Bastard B-series" motors that were still a b-series but for whatever reason not engineered to have parts swappable with the other b-series? Or am I thinking of a different year preludes.

all B series had pars that would go between each other. B16, B17 and B18, reason why I think honda civic and acura integras were so pop. to swap, and for those jerk offs, steal.

Yeah but I always heard that there was an early version of the B20 out of the preludes that didn't swap well or at all with parts from the other B-series. I dunno.

Because when that Vtec kicks in its all over but the crying.

whats going to be happening the 5 thousand rpms it takes for him to get to vtec? you need to remember that crap dont "Kick in" until about 6000 rpm. so from the time he dumps the clutch til 6000 his turd will be getting eaten by the SVT. it will be all the vtec can do just to catch up. because my zetec kicks in the moment i dump the clutch and smash the gas and doesnt stop pulling til 7200 rpm. then it repeats itself 5 more times.

Thank you all.........I recently also purchased new toyos, and a sts. Very noticable imporvement. I think I am going to take him up. After all he works at Circle K. I make more than he does. (fact) And if what you are saying is true then his g-station wage is not going to cut a $7k-10k engine swap. Looks like another kill. But I will feel bad for beating a wanna be k20.

I'm very interested in hearing how this turns out, and I think you're right about gas station attendant wages and all.

whats going to be happening the 5 thousand rpms it takes for him to get to vtec? you need to remember that crap dont "Kick in" until about 6000 rpm. so from the time he dumps the clutch til 6000 his turd will be getting eaten by the SVT. it will be all the vtec can do just to catch up. because my zetec kicks in the moment i dump the clutch and smash the gas and doesnt stop pulling til 7200 rpm. then it repeats itself 5 more times.

that is what launching is for.. my vtec doesnt kick in til 5800.. i launch and feather the clutch out.. lands me right about at 5800.. it takes less than a second to get to 5800 from the lauch, and it is only out of vtec for the first gear..so it wont be needing to catch up.. when i shift @ 8200 it lands me at about 6000rpm
no offense, i still love foci and SVT will always have a place in my heart.. but it doesnt compare to a car that is $3k more with ~30 more Whp

whats going to be happening the 5 thousand rpms it takes for him to get to vtec? you need to remember that crap dont "Kick in" until about 6000 rpm. so from the time he dumps the clutch til 6000 his turd will be getting eaten by the SVT. it will be all the vtec can do just to catch up. because my zetec kicks in the moment i dump the clutch and smash the gas and doesnt stop pulling til 7200 rpm. then it repeats itself 5 more times.

Silly boy, Vtec in my B17 starts at 4300 RPM. and for a honda to get there thats nothing. Please remember they arnt like Ford, Hoda's rev. where for me 4300 Vtec starts and Rev lim. is 9500. that phrase "sounds like a pissed off lawn mower" well sad but has some truth to it. on the other had ford motors are all about torque, low rps, and displacement.

that phrase "sounds like a pissed off lawn mower" well sad but has some truth to it. on the other had ford motors are all about torque, low rps, and displacement.

Yeah, It's kind of like comparing oranges and clementines. One is smaller but more flavorful and the other is bigger and more juicy. They're both good and get the job done, they just do it a different way that's all. I think the zetec could be on par with an LS (B18a) motor if ford had spent more time on making a performance 4 cylinder rather than the V8s and what not.

Yeah, It's kind of like comparing oranges and clementines. One is smaller but more flavorful and the other is bigger and more juicy. They're both good and get the job done, they just do it a different way that's all. I think the zetec could be on par with an LS (B18a) motor if ford had spent more time on making a performance 4 cylinder rather than the V8s and what not.

Or just brought it to the U.S. In Europe the performance Hondas have never been on par with the Fords. Damn FMC!

My ex GF has a prelude. The newer ones...97 and it has the H22 with a exaust and intake. It will pull in 3rd againts my car which is a D23 with a CAI so they can be quick :D Especially in a civic cuz they are LIGht!!

the rsx has a K20, the RSx type S also has a K20 but the engies are tuned differently.The TSX has a K24 but the K24 can also be frankenstein motors from diff newer acuras. Preludes have never and will never come with a k20. they carry the H22A or the H22B. the main diff is the V-tec. It also depends on what civic he has, The infamous EG early 90's is he choice platform for that swap due to the small weight, also the EJ which is the coupe,as in early accords which carried the 2.3 H23 SOHC.My buddy Gabriel has a Ek civic (2000) with an LS V-tec swap and it's fully built down to the axles, This car is pushing 265Whp N/A and he got smoked by an EG (hatchback) with a stock K-20. So yeah if he really has that swap you're in for a real ass-raping.

Silly boy, Vtec in my B17 starts at 4300 RPM.
silly boy, a b17 and a k20 are nothing alike. nobody ever asked about your b17. the man wants to know what a k20 is about. if you dump the clutch on a k20 at 6 grand your gonna get your ass whooped by a svtf. your gonna sit there for a min smokin the tires unless your have drag radials. the svt doesnt "kick in" it pulls from the get go. a k20 is a turd til 6 grand. i know my best friend had one and i drove it a thousand times. a 6 speed RSX-S. his zx3 with intake and sawwed off lunchbox turns the same times his rsx did. my svtf will walk all over that rsx because the stupid thing has no power until 6 grand. its a turd. just like my VVTL-I celica was. my svtf will walk all over that too. hell my old zx3 would spank that thing. point is if you dump the clutch at 6 gs your gonna have bad wheelspin. if you dump it any lower your gonna bog. either way the svtf has a good chance of winning with a good driver.

silly boy, a b17 and a k20 are nothing alike. nobody ever asked about your b17. the man wants to know what a k20 is about. if you dump the clutch on a k20 at 6 grand your gonna get your ass whooped by a svtf. your gonna sit there for a min smokin the tires unless your have drag radials. the svt doesnt "kick in" it pulls from the get go. a k20 is a turd til 6 grand. i know my best friend had one and i drove it a thousand times. a 6 speed RSX-S. his zx3 with intake and sawwed off lunchbox turns the same times his rsx did. my svtf will walk all over that rsx because the stupid thing has no power until 6 grand. its a turd. just like my VVTL-I celica was. my svtf will walk all over that too. hell my old zx3 would spank that thing. point is if you dump the clutch at 6 gs your gonna have bad wheelspin. if you dump it any lower your gonna bog. either way the svtf has a good chance of winning with a good driver.
do you want me to take a video of a good take off then? it is absolutly no turd.. sorr.. SVTs just dont really stand a chance.. i think that i could beat an SVT with i/h/e
BUT im not going to continue this flaming war that your trying to get me in here. haha

socal: the base rsx and rsx-s have different versions of the k20. its not simply a tune. if that were the case nobody would buy the s type. just the base rsx and get a tune. the type s has I-VTEC which is just some random letters the japanese fools that created it threw together that dont stand for anything. its variable valve timing thats electronically controlled by the ecu. when the engine starts out the cams and valves are set at a certain point. when the engine turns higher rpm the car starts to run out of cam and wind up. the ecu then re adjusts the cam timing and valves to a different set point which makes the engine "start over" in a sence. it gives a good boost for about 2500 rpms. the head on the type s is a completely different head than the base model as well. kinda like base zetec and svtf

you do that. make me a video with 2 screen shots picture in picture. one of the outside of the car leaving and one of the tach sitting on 6 thousand rpm. both during the same pull with a k20. lemme know when its finished. i wanna watch it.

another note. you drive a 07 si. which has a completely different k20 from that of the older model rsx-s. which im sure this dude probobly got his non existant swap. im probobly 100% sure he didnt pull a k20 from a 07 si and put it in a car that needs a swap that costs upwards of 5 grand and have it running and racing already.

i wouldnt feather it out at 6k it dumps me at about 5.. but my point was that an SVT wouldnt pull on me.... or get the jump so that i am playing catch up.. if i end up going to the track on saturday im looking to get a 14.5 :thumb:

I hope you are not talking about your civic si, I have seen a stock st 06, beat one 2 out of 3 times at firebird raceway. Like I said before hondas are only nice when the vtec kicks in. Unlike the focus which unleashes the same amount of torque and hp without having to go through 4k rpms till the power is actually avail. The fofos also have a large amount of torque compared to the hondas. Don't get me wrong with the right tuning (vtec controller) you can have a vtec engine put that power down much sooner than 5.5k or whenever it kicks in. With that said I love the immediate power i receive from my focus. I used to always want a honda accord coupeV6 98-02. Till I found out that they are sohc, and the vtec doesn't kick in till you are in the high rpm range. Focuses have and always will be beastly especially off the line compared to a honda.----Zoom----

ive posted this before ,but ill do it again....i have no ill wiil to the hondas....but i know i would kick the shit out of one........and hard too.(been there done that)

Nice. But while I am at it. I have also smoked a toyota xrs. Which has the same engine as the celica gts, slightly detuned though. Like hondas the vvtl-i doesn't kick in till 6200 rpms on the xrs, With that said the 190 hp the xrs has isn't put down untill that 6200 rpm. My friend who owned the xrs, wasn't the best racer nor the most knowledgable. So he would shift at about 7k. I told him to hold it till 8k, once he listened the race was a lil closer. Yet is still I got him with my powerband being constant. However he did take me on a freeway run....once my governor kicked in that is.

I see a flame war brewing, Domestic vs Import!!

Nice. But while I am at it. I have also smoked a toyota xrs. Which has the same engine as the celica gts, slightly detuned though. Like hondas the vvtl-i doesn't kick in till 6200 rpms on the xrs, With that said the 190 hp the xrs has isn't put down untill that 6200 rpm. My friend who owned the xrs, wasn't the best racer nor the most knowledgable. So he would shift at about 7k. I told him to hold it till 8k, once he listened the race was a lil closer. Yet is still I got him with my powerband being constant. However he did take me on a freeway run....once my governor kicked in that is.

what did he have done to it? the xrs has 170 stock.. not 190 [scratch]
i see a lot of horrible drivers with an Si.. doesnt mean the car is slow.. just a driver that doesnt know how to launch or powershift.. and SOHC VTEC is a joke...
im trying to set up a race with a bud on here that has an ST with i/h/e and i guess he just ordered cams..
i dont see why you guys think that honda sucks just because you think there is nothing before vtec.. im only out of it for like a second.. a second jump isnt going to put me that far behind
0-60 in about 6.5 sec... thats pretty good for a 20k car

what did he have done to it? the xrs has 170 stock.. not 190 [scratch]
i see a lot of horrible drivers with an Si.. doesnt mean the car is slow.. just a driver that doesnt know how to launch or powershift.. and SOHC VTEC is a joke...
im trying to set up a race with a bud on here that has an ST with i/h/e and i guess he just ordered cams..
i dont see why you guys think that honda sucks just because you think there is nothing before vtec.. im only out of it for like a second.. a second jump isnt going to put me that far behind
0-60 in about 6.5 sec... thats pretty good for a 20k car

Does the i-VTEC "kick" in on the new DOHC motors like the old VTEC or is it just a smooth progressive adjustment over the powerband?

Also, unless you mean the newer SOHC motors, they can be fast if they're built right. My ZX3 pulls a 10.4 usually in the 1/8th mile, but I know a guy who just finished building a SOHC (i don't remember if it's VTEC head or not) and he has pulled a 9.8 out there. I do know other people who had faster SOHC hondas but I don't know what their track times were.

oh yeah! i know that when they are built they can be amazing! but i am refering to stock, or somewhat close to stock.. not fully built or f/i
and yeah it kicks pretty hard with vtec comes in, its like a 35 hp increase

and yeah it kicks pretty hard with vtec comes in, its like a 35 hp increase

Oh heck yeah it's fun to hit VTEC and go 'weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee'[:D] LOL.

And for just put-putting around town the new Si feels just like a stock Zetec (at least to me) until you hit 6000 RPM's then it's a whole different animal. I use to be a Honda hater til I test drove this car and let me tell you I'm glad I did.

^ <3
are you on 8thcivic?
i didnt see what all the fuss was with vtec and all that.. but after driving it, i found out when i was looking for a new car ( Si, GTi, wrx, Ms3, c230, is300) the Si was the most fun! wrx was realy close, and i would have rather had that (at the time) but insuarance was too much

Yeah joined but haven't posted yet. Just been browsing[:)]

WV07BlueSi is the screenname. Yeah I know creative isn't it. LOL.

LOL my name there is qwerty :)
welcome to the ocho
haha
just to clear it up.. im not trying to start a flame war; i just hate when people trash things that they havnt actually driven yet or personally know about. i did the same thing when they said negative things about fofo's

just to clear it up.. im not trying to start a flame war; i just hate when people trash things that they havnt actually driven yet or personally know about. i did the same thing when they said negative things about fofo's


I agree[thumb] If you haven't driven it then [:)][:)][:)][:)][:D]

i just replied to your intro thread :)
i wonder if now that YOU have posted here, most of the flaming against honda will stop...

[lockdance]

this is what im thinking

Haha. Yeah right. I'm surprised this one is still staying civilized [hihi]

i dont see why these always have to be locked... why cant we have the great debate, and just make people stay away from personalized attacks and somewhat civilized? just keep it on one thread and controlled?

its just a matter of opinion.....why fight over it?

I have no idea[dunno] It's just a car but you usually get these people that always personally attack people over it and I don't know why.

But anyway, I guess I'm the newest HO with a Honda[giggle] I <3 my Ford & my Honda. So carry on.

I have no idea[dunno] It's just a car but you usually get these people that always personally attack people over it and I don't know why.

But anyway, I guess I'm the newest HO with a Honda[giggle] I <3 my Ford & my Honda. So carry on.

haha......that dident sound right lol....
how do u like it?

yeah i dont see why car enthusiasts have to fight over two different styles of engines...

Not that i really want to introduce this "wrench" into the problem, but ford also doesnt offer the gearing Honda can do. the k series has less options but still with the short geared 6 speed taken shorter with a larger overdrive gear its just about all around the best as far as trannys go. B series offered two short geared trannys one was a JDM spec and it was hella short. My teggy isnt even in first long enough to notice Vtec kick in at 4300 to shift point 9K. second gear you can tell. and trust me my Vtec is crazy loud.

I am with AZTEGS in Firebird alllllllllll the time. my teggy hasnt been there in about 6 months. (hehe upgrades babay, shop time). Im sorry but i love my focus but there are too many other factors that come in to play to hinder the focus, wind resistance, suspension, gearing. yes if you take both cars as NA the focus is like having a supercharger on it and the Honda is like having a turbo. I will give you the constant power from the ford being low rpms and torque... but im only going to give it to you for the first 60, 80 feet, after that no way.

Both cars have the ability to beat the crap out of each other. but dollar for dollar honda is going to walk all over the ford. thats just my .02$

HAHA and as for the drop the clutch at 6K and honda spinning. go ahead and do it to your fofo, tell me it doesnt spin or die from being bogged down like a dead dog. remember honda LOVES RPM's only in low rpms we have a hard time.

I would no way put my focus and my integra in the same class. not a chance. BUT. I have yet to dump the same amount of time and money into my focus as it stands. I just dont see it getting to the same point. IF the USDM would have not spent so much time on thier love of big block gas hogs and more on the smaller motors then the focus in this day and age would be a run for the money. or at least not run a car line for only 3 years and expect people to love it... sigh...

I am keeping track of the mods and money spent on my ZX3 I wanted this to be my project car. seeing the Honda had a 4,700, stock morot swap, 2x 1,300 short geared trannys, about 600 into the clutch, and 3K in other parts. Comes to, 10,900$. So i will put in 11K or the same parts as my honda and see where it stands. Still keeping it NA.

i love all kinds of cars, both hondas and fords alike, but just want to say that a stock svtf will not b able to win a stock rsxs, just too much of a difference in power. plus once vtec hits its pretty over for the svtf. stock svtf can hit a 15.5 on the 1/4 mile, rsxs can hit 14.3 on the 1/4 mile, u b the judge.

i love all kinds of cars, both hondas and fords alike, but just want to say that a stock svtf will not b able to win a stock rsxs, just too much of a difference in power. plus once vtec hits its pretty over for the svtf. stock svtf can hit a 15.5 on the 1/4 mile, rsxs can hit 14.3 on the 1/4 mile, u b the judge.

Yeah, the RSXs have crazy highend power, but I hear they're barely above average in the 0-60 dept. I.E., it's not too hard for other sporty cars to keep up, but once they reach ~60-70mph they take off.

Just save your money for a v8 swap! ok maybe not, but I say maybe a small 35 shot would do nicely.
-bix

what did he have done to it? the xrs has 170 stock.. not 190 [scratch]
i see a lot of horrible drivers with an Si.. doesnt mean the car is slow.. just a driver that doesnt know how to launch or powershift.. and SOHC VTEC is a joke...
im trying to set up a race with a bud on here that has an ST with i/h/e and i guess he just ordered cams..
i dont see why you guys think that honda sucks just because you think there is nothing before vtec.. im only out of it for like a second.. a second jump isnt going to put me that far behind
0-60 in about 6.5 sec... thats pretty good for a 20k car

Excuse me, You are correct. The Gts has around 180-190 i believe. And there alot of horrible drivers period. As for the race you are trying to set up please let us know how it goes.....By the way would you be running stock against this i/h/e st? And no one said Hondas suck They just aren't nearly as potent untill their vtec or i-vtec kick in. I have driven and rsx-s, and yes they are beastly. However we also have to consider the fact of Cost to power. My Se focus doesn't cost nearly as much as an s.i. or a xrs. Pending on where and how much you pay for them the difference can be anywhere from 5Gs to 10gs Lets take an se o6 focus drop 5 gs in it and take it against a stock s.i......results are a burnt honda. Right or wrong? Right, with 3gs alone you can drop a turbo in her.[cool]

svtf = 9k. SI = 20k. 11k difference. 11k = lots of hp. get my drift? im not flaming or starting wars here. yes these 2 cars are way different. one guy mocked me about the 6 grand clutch dump. let me clear that up. i dont need to do a 6 grand clutch dump because i dont have vtec. the point in me saying that was that a honda is a turd until vtec kicks in around 6 grand. now leaving the hole against a svtf at whatever rpm will leave you bogging unless your near vtec which will leave you pretty much roasting tires. the smooth powerband of the svt can be launched at about 3-4 thousand and not even chirp a tire and the car pulls just as hard through the rpms without ever "kicking in" to anything for the needed hp. i would rather have my car over any SI. reason? i saved 11 thousand dollars, my car is much lighter, has a much smoother powerband, has nearly the same amount of power, getrag, hid's, and hatchbacks just look pimp. the list goes on. to each his own. the new civics are sick looking. and yes ive driven the k20. its a very nice little engine. but these people are making out like its a god among 4 bangers. im just not that impressed with it. my best friend just bought an 03 zx3 zetec with 60k miles for $5500. thats $15000+ he saved and can use to mod his car to kill just about anything on the street. plus buying a new car is the worst investment you can make, the value depriciates as soon as it leave the lot. all in all i just think the SVTF is the best car for the buck.

I agree with grim here. I know that fofo parts are pretty expensive (I love+hate you, cosworth) but the initial price of the car offsets that by a fair amount as far as I'm concerned.

Nfocus, I'd love to see the results of what you're trying to do if you get it finished any time soon.

ans gts celica has 180hp and the vvtl-i comes in at about 6500. i had an 04 model.

http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/data/500/medium/16938celica_043.jpg

and both my focuses would beat its ass horribly. it was a dog until vvtl-i.

I always wanted to swap a Celica GTS motor into my 81' Toyota pickup. Wish I still had that pickup. [:(]

but the SVT wasnt 9k new.. you could buy a 00 Si for 7500 and put $ into.. but im talking about buying a new car, or at least go with the cost of the SVT new...(plus you cant finance mods) and the k20 is basically a god among 4 bangers[cheers]
and ill admit that it is somewhat a turd before vtec.. but you dont land out of vtec in a race

I don't know, i've never really seen a "Fast" honda, they are out there, but kinda rare. I think a car with a torque friendly motor (within reason) will easily beat alot of the high hp/high rpm cars. Once you go power adder though all bets are off.
-bix

CRX morphed into the Del Sol for a while....it was still the same car with a new name

I think you are in the wrong forum buddy. But aside from that nice looking celica Gonzo'. And I will admit the 00 si isn't bad but they only have 110 lb of torque at the wheels, a 1.6, and also rely on their vtec. My se has more than that. Like I, and Gonzo said, the smooth and constant powerband of the focus with its freindly price tag make IT a God amongst Gods. "this is Civic!" "Civic? This is Focus![boxface] {duratech kicks vtec in the pit} LOL Sorry I've seen 300 twice. But I'm not knocking vtecs, just saying that i love having power whenever.[;)]

well yeah the civics have low torque.. but they also have the some what smooth linear torque line.. it might not have alot but its always there.. (i.e. i have about 150 tq @ 3000 rpm just as i would have at 8000rpm) there is no peak to go off of to make it seem like you have a lot, like they do with duratecs and all others..

I don't know, i've never really seen a "Fast" honda, they are out there, but kinda rare. I think a car with a torque friendly motor (within reason) will easily beat alot of the high hp/high rpm cars. Once you go power adder though all bets are off.
-bix


For real. I like my little grocery getter Focus, but fast requires 4 more cylinders IMO. Sure, I can let my foot off the clutch get rolling at low rpm's, nail the pedal, and spin tire like a champ through the first 2 gears. Unless you're sporting Tom's SVT turbo kit, all these cars can be driven in the rain. Real fast cars cannot be driven in the rain- unless you have a deathwish.

PS: You must also have a very large bank account to sport fuel for 6 mpg race cars at more than $5/gallon for 110 octane which I do not have at the moment.

i didnt launch very high here (at about 4k), and it wasnt my best one, but i couldnt get the camera to focus, or stay in place for the other launches.. its also up a slight hill ( about 10% )
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/aphrodisiacdrumr/?action=view&current=civic016.flv

and this one is from a 14mph roll to see it accelerate "without" vtec...or launching
http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/aphrodisiacdrumr/?action=view&current=civic018.flv

dont worry about where i missed 4th in the first one, lol i was concentrating on too much on the filming, and reaching over to stop the filming
might take a better video with better launches and focused better on the tach/speedo when i get time with a friend and am not lazy

holly crap! LOL.. I love my integra.. 68 MPH in second gear BEFORE my rev. kicks in. LOL. Got to love those short geared cable trannys and a set of good tires. but then again I would love to have a 6 speed.

LOL in the first video i love how the tach moves across the "range" and when it hits vtec is slams forward. lol. 4th gear, who gives a heck. third gear we are gone any how.

[cheers]
yeah forgot to mention, those were on the horrible stock tires too

^Did you have the all-season's or the summer tires? I've got the all-season's on mine and I think they stick pretty well.

they are all season they arent the worst, but deffinently not as good as any other tire i have had (kumho and proxies) also, forgot to mention that in the video i only had i/e

WHY!?! Why do people keep comparing a car designed 6 years ago to a car designed last year? Of course the new Si is superior to the SVT Focus. Ford dropped the ball and dropped out of the Sport Compact market in the U.S. and Canada. If my SVT out performed a new Civic Si I would wonder what happened to the Honda engineers. If you want to compare the SVT to the Civic Si it was designed to compete against ,then yes it is a better performer. I don't know why we keep defending a company that does nothing but crap on our segment in this(U.S.)market. When I see a ST225 in my drive way ,then I will start talking smack to New Si owners. I have a feeling that Fl3tch and Ashley are not going to be hearing that argument any time soon.

haha yeah! i already said that if the euro ST comes over here, i would buy it the next day! but i have a huge feeling that wont ever happen, so i think that my focus is the last ford ill ever buy, mostly b/c they dont care about USA anymore :(

man all cars that we have sucks a**, ne where else = fast cars!

I dunno, I kinda thought that some of the new Shelby Mustangs were fast. It's unfair to compare those cars to these cars with little motors.

I'm horribly upset that Ford hasn't been talking to Coates, the American designers of the spherical rotating valve which would fit EASILY in the new Duratec engines. If that happened then the 10k rpm of Vtec motors would seem paltry. Knowing Ford, they are probably trying to figure out how to get that kind of design into a Mustang before a Focus. Although I wish they would use those in a 1L turbo diesel so I didn't support terrorism every time I go to the pump.

Holy cow... Coates is now on the market as of last month!! COTE on OTCBB. Still a penny stock, but with focus leaning towards alternative fuels and the automotive market's focus on power, this could be a good buy if the bear comes back as is predicted!

a corvette and a cobra would be pretty quick just about anywhere. the top of the line gm products with their massively huge engines are all gettin to be pretty quick too.

Haha man, I can't believe this thread has gone this long and far.

Hondas are better!

No, Foci are better!

For absolute reliability and overall quality I would say the prior is true, but for cost/value/bang for your buck and relative reliability, I would say the latter is true.

As far as the subject of the thread, the guy was absolutely BSing based on how he said what he said alone. Could have told you that right away...

I never said any one of them were better. LOL.

I like 'em both or I wouldn't have 'em[:D]

For real. I like my little grocery getter Focus, but fast requires 4 more cylinders IMO. Sure, I can let my foot off the clutch get rolling at low rpm's, nail the pedal, and spin tire like a champ through the first 2 gears. Unless you're sporting Tom's SVT turbo kit, all these cars can be driven in the rain. Real fast cars cannot be driven in the rain- unless you have a deathwish.

PS: You must also have a very large bank account to sport fuel for 6 mpg race cars at more than $5/gallon for 110 octane which I do not have at the moment.

Well I believe you can get big power out of these little engine, but it takes alot more work.

And I know about fast cars and rain, its no fun and its downright scary.

As for race car, nope, big high performance engine with moderate boost = BIG power. 347 engine with long rod, pushing 10psi makes nearly 600whp. With 6psi I put down 477ish whp. I only get about 10-12mpg with 91 octane. Anyways good luck
-bix

Tom at Focus-Power had dynos of one pushing 700 whp. It is possible, it is always possible, but there aren't very many people who can do it. A long time ago I read about a guy who had a 32psi dual turbo kit for VTEC motors (early models) that was pushing 500hp on 110 octane. Personally I think he was selling to people with more money than sense because monster head big blocks are about the only thing I'd think could take such boost and not explode. Surely not an aluminum head with lots of holes like a VTEC head.

V8's with turbos make insane power.