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My Oil Change Interval Debate Rant

97K views 484 replies 101 participants last post by  rebelx 
#1 ·
Okay, here is my opinion on the whole oil change issue:

Despite what the manufactures tell you, and the internet, and magazines, etc. Get a good quality oil and change it often. Clean oil protects your engine. PERIOD.

If you are using a conventional oil or semi-synthetic why not use the age old 3000mi interval? The stuff is cheap! I hear all of this debate on the internet, in articles, etc. about using your oil longer, but we spend more on a tank of gas each week than on an oil change! Think about it. Why are people so desperate to extend their intervals when we go though gas like crazy (but that is okay [well, except for the price gouging])?

A freaking cartridge of printer ink costs more than an oil change!!!!

I use synthetic oil in everything. If the car has a decent oil capacity (like the Focus) for its engine size, use, and output then I change it every 5000mi and use a good quality filter (Motorcraft or Mobil-1). If the capacity is low (like my wife's Protege 5 at 3.7 quarts) I change it just like conventional oil (3000mi).

If it is a high performance vehicle that is driven often (like my old Lightning and MS3), I change the synthetic at 3000mi.

It is cheap insurance. We are not killing ourselves financially by doing so. Your car will last longer as well.

Even the "saving the environment" argument is silly...oil can be recycled!

I am not ranting at you, but just in general. I see this debate all the time, and I just don't understand it. I'm as poor as the next guy, but I have no problem spending money on oil. I see it as insurance against bigger repair bills down the road.
 
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#4 ·
But its was the quicky lube places that said to change it at 3k not the manufacture(s)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using FF Mobile 2

Maybe, but I remember that old adage back when shade-tree mechanics used to always change their own oil.

Most oil gets pretty dirty at 3000mi, some cars less [turbo cars for instance], and some more, but 3000mi is just an average (kind of a happy medium), that seemed to always work for most cases.

I am not saying you can't go longer, but why the obsession some people show with doing it? Like I said above, its cheap and think of your investment. You have paid huge bucks for that new high tech engine and it will take huge bucks to fix it if you have wear related repairs. Why not cheaply protect that investment instead of worrying about eeeking out a few extra miles before that oil change?

It is just my opinion of course, but I had to vent. Kind of came to a head today. Lol! [rofl] [poke]
 
#3 ·
I border on obsessive when it comes to oil. Mobil1 or Penzoil Platinum in everything, OEM filters for the warrantied cars, WIX for out-of-warranty. It took me YEARS to work up to the 5,000 mile interval. I kept my Mazdaspeed6 at 3000 because I was particularly hard on that car.

Because I don't have a life anymore and I have a short commute to work, my cars now most often require a change due to time vs. mileage. People think I'm crazy for dumping full-syn that has 2,000 miles on it..but it's what the owner's manual required in the Mazda and the Optima (6 months). The Focus will likely be the same. The Camaro is the only exception...it'll get oil changes when the computer says to, but since I'm running Mobil1 in it, I'm not concerned.

Since oil is being recycled these days, and (knock on wood) I remain gainfully employed, the cars are treated like the expensive machines they are. I just sleep better with fresh oil in the pans. I demand a lot from my cars, so they are treated very well with respect to maintenance.
 
#5 ·
Well put! It took me a while to work up to that 5000 miles too. I only started that on my 2007 Edge because that 3.5 Duratec really kept the oil clean (wonderful engine).

I border on obsessive when it comes to oil. Mobil1 or Penzoil Platinum in everything, OEM filters for the warrantied cars, WIX for out-of-warranty. It took me YEARS to work up to the 5,000 mile interval. I kept my Mazdaspeed6 at 3000 because I was particularly hard on that car.

Because I don't have a life anymore and I have a short commute to work, my cars now most often require a change due to time vs. mileage. People think I'm crazy for dumping full-syn that has 2,000 miles on it..but it's what the owner's manual required in the Mazda and the Optima (6 months). The Focus will likely be the same. The Camaro is the only exception...it'll get oil changes when the computer says to, but since I'm running Mobil1 in it, I'm not concerned.

Since oil is being recycled these days, and (knock on wood) I remain gainfully employed, the cars are treated like the expensive machines they are. I just sleep better with fresh oil in the pans. I demand a lot from my cars, so they are treated very well with respect to maintenance.
 
#6 ·
3K OCIs are WAY overkill, regardless of what type of oil you're using these days. Those OCIs were mostly pushed by the oil companies themselves "back in the day".

You can do whatever you want, of course. I send a sample to Blackstone every once in a while and go by their recommendations based upon how the additive package is holding up with my use. The tested samples not only serve that use, but also to show the condition of the engine itself, so they're worth it to me.
 
#434 ·
For the record, most (not all) full synthetic oil manufacturers do not label, advertise, or suggest extended intervals. That's just another one of those things "people say". Now some do, Amsoil namely, but others don't. They intend for you to follow the manufacturers recommendation whether you use conventional or synthetic. Traditionally, you run synthetic for greater engine protection, for it's improved ability to 'cling' to parts to reduce the amount of un-lubed parts on startup after the car has not run for a few hours or days, etc. etc. While full synthetic does stay in grade longer, there's more than viscosity to oil.

The 3k mile OCI was pushed by quick-lube places and found it's way into all the old wives tales. It was also pushed in a time when engines were less tightly machined, and oil was far worse. (Remember finding tons of metal shavings in your oil and filter after the first couple of oil changed on a new car? That was just part of breaking it in! Now we barely have a break in).

That said; 3k mile OCI's won't hurt anything. They can only serve you better. Some of us put a LOT of miles on our cars and I can certainly understand it! Oil changes really are not that expensive. It amazes me sometimes that people are willing to put thousands of dollars on a body kit, but aren't willing to change the oil. If you run it hard, 3k miles, even with synthetic, isn't a bad idea. But I would definitely never exceed the manufacturers recommendation without a used oil analysis.

All that said; OCI's are a 'guesstimate' anyway based on how oil performs 'on average'. A lot of the big trucking companies use high grade synthetic oil and perform used oil analysis on the oil periodically. They sometimes go 50,000 miles between oil changes and yet will put a million miles on a motor before a rebuild. For them, it's all about money. Analysts have balanced the cost of oil changes coupled with the tremendous cost of engines or rebuilds (plus the cost of having the truck down for days/weeks). If those purely cost-driven folks think UOA's are the most cost-effective way to maintain their vehicles; then it's something we could consider on our cars too! UOA's are real simple. They'll give you a bunch of numbers you may or may not understand, but usually, it'll be along with "You better change it in the next 1,000 miles" or "You're good for another 5,000 miles easy! Send another sample in at 4,000 miles and we'll see how it's holding up". Then you're changing the oil only when it's actually needed.

BUT; UOA's are pricey when compared to the cost of changing oil in a small engine. When changing 15+ quarts in a big diesel of oil that costs $10 a quart? Sure; that's one thing. But it's a thought anyway. I do periodic UOA's to confirm my OCI's. I do 5,000 mile OCI's myself. I do occasional UOA's to A) Confirm that my OCI is still right for my car and my oil and my driving conditions, and B) having a lab examine your oil is a fantastic way to keep tabs on your engines condition.
 
#8 ·
Matt, I agree with everything you said.

Now, having said that, I would like to share a little info. I don't subscribe to this policy, but it is in place (at least it was in 2003-2004).

Enterprise Rent-A-Car(ERAC) bought 6% of GM's yearly domestic output in the early 2000's, and a good sized chunk of Ford and Chrysler products as well. We're talking a corporate fleet of 600,000+ vehicles. Enterprise did not keep any vehicle outside of it's manufacturers warranty period, except for a few specialized cases. To keep the warranties valid, the cars had to go in for oil changes/service as recommended by the manufacturer. A 3000 mile OCI just wouldn't cut it. Each manufacturer specified to ERAC what the maximum OCI could be, and ERAC programmed that into their computer system for each make/model. Most US cars were in the 7Kmile range, I think the Cadillac's were 5K, and some of the imports had funky OCI's. I can't recall seeing a vehicle under 5K.

I know that was a business decision on ERAC's part, they basically cut the service costs in half. It is also one reason I would never buy a previous rental car. But, it does show what the OEM's allow to maintain a valid warranty. The 2004 Cadillac at my branch had it's engine replaced, under warranty, with less than 10K on the clock(they had to pull an engine off the assembly queue and ship it to CA). And renting a Caddy at ERAC is not the easiest thing to do. Special restrictions, high deposits, your own insurance must cover the rental, etc.

I personally change in the 3-5K range with Amsoil synthetics. The Focus will go 3k on it's first fill of dino, then another 3k or so on another fill of dino, then the rest of it's life on Amsoil.
 
#35 ·
You can take this for what's its worth, my focus was a hertz rental, I've owned the car for 7 years and 159,000mi oil still comes out clean EVERY TIME, never burns a drop either. I change every 5 to 7k I've let it go more before and never had an issue.
 
#10 ·
When I had my Ranger (4.0, V6, 4X4), I was using Mobil 1 and Purolator filters.

At around 50,000 miles I decided to use Blackstone Labs for some oil tests.

I sent in a sample with 6000 miles on it, and they reported back that the oil was fine.

I sent another sample at 8000 miles, and they reported that the oil was just starting to show signs of wear.

I sent yet another sample at 10,000 miles, and they reported that the oil was near the end of its life, but still good.

I chickened out at that point, but you get the idea.

That being said, every engine is different. While I believe 3000 miles it TOTAL overkill, especially when using a synthetic oil, you can never really be sure of how your engine will treat the oil unless you have the oil tested for life span at least once.
 
#11 ·
I was about to post a link to Blackstone and how I knew someone on IWSTI who went through the same process as you and concluded about 9k miles on full synthetic 5W-30 (Actually, it might have been the infamous German Castrol 0W-30) was the sweet spot for his STi.

Thanks for posting about having an oil analysis done, it's something that's just plain smart. :)
 
#12 ·
It is cheap insurance.
Cheap .... and completely unnecessary .....

Why not change your coolant every 5000 miles too ??? Answer .... It's not necessary. You can believe you're doing your engine a favor by changing oil at 3000 and 5000, ESPECIALLY synthetic at 3000 ... but all you're really doing is wasting money. But it's YOUR money .... so go for it.

I prefer a more scientific approach, like using oil analysis.


REV
 
#15 ·
Oil Changes are a good way to keep a vehicle regularly inspected and maintained for things you may not normally consider unless you were already changing the oil.

I don't know about anyone else, but when my car is on jack stands and the oil is draining, I check all other parts of the car for wear and tear. Spark plugs, air filter, suspension bushings, hose condition, coolant levels, top off the windshield washer fluid, etc, stuff I wouldn't normally do if I wasn't already in the garage with the car in the air.
 
#16 ·
I am going to change the oil in my focus every 5000 miles. That is because the dealer I purchased the car at gives free oil changes as long as you own the vehicle every 5k miles.

If I were paying for them myself I would probably just follow Ford's recommended schedule.
 
#20 ·
This is just as full of arguments as the regular gas vs premium gas debate.

[poke] I use a secret system developed by Nasa in conjunction with Stephen Hawking and Homeland Security to calculate when to change my oil.
The calculations take a few hours on a supercomputer, but it is all worth it.
(I can sneak the time free, so that is covered)

After i drain the oil, it is sent by special courier service to a secret lab in area 51 where it is bombarded with a high intesity cosmic ray source from the alien spaceship. Then sent to a 3 mile deep shaft where it is studied for signs of alien intelligence.
After that it is fed to gerbils.
So far only two of the gerbils have started speaking in Aramaic.. but it looks very promising.
I can say no more. [ninja]
 
#22 ·
I don't disagree with your schedule at all as one can never be too safe. I will post my schedule just for fun and to include my opinion.

I have an initial oil change done between 500-1000 miles. Typically, though, with a hard break-in you are supposed to do it within the first 50. I just have difficulty believing that anything is getting past the filter within that time period.

I use OEM oil/filter for the first 10k miles, getting my second oil change done at 5k (just yesterday!).

At 10k I switch to Mobil One full synthetic with OEM filter and switch to 10k oil changes. That being said, I do replace the filter halfway through and top off with fresh oil.

At 15k intervals (and that's over-doing it imho), I run one bottle of Chevron w/Textron fuel system cleaner and at 30k I have my coolant flushed. Air filter is changed ASAP to K&N drop-in and plugs usually go to a split-tip (though this time I'm going to do some testing with iridium). Filter cleanings occur at 30k while plugs get checked at 15k for gap and color.

If this vehicle had a wet sump auto and/or were a rear-wheel drive, I would replace the trans and diff fluids with Royal Purple at 15k and run them for 30k.

I have never had a problem running this set-up, though I have to also be honest and say that I usually don't keep vehicles very long either. My Ranger, which was traded in on this Focus, ran like a top (though they usually do and are semi-indestructible) and was the longest I've kept a vehicle (7 yrs, almost 60k).

This is what works for me, as it gives me a longer service life on my fluids yet maintains a simple math formula that is easy to remember.
 
#40 ·
OP, I just purchased a 2012 Focus and will be installing a bypass filtration system to remove finer particles (wear metals and contaminants) from the engine lubricant. Not only will it extend oil change intervals, but will significantly reduce engine wear. Full flow screw on premium filters alone will not perform efficiently under 20 microns. Cheap filters aren't great under 30-40 microns. Bypass filtration systems will filter efficiently in the 1 micron range.

The bypass system will effectively allow my engine to achieve 15,000 mile oil change intervals, or one year, whichever occur first, on true synthetic lubricants. Also note that this is for a severe service schedule and would be capable of more. However, I believe that once a year oil changes are sufficient to save money, time, and the environment with less waste oil.

Look for a detailed installation thread in the coming weeks for the bypass filtration system with used oil analysis reports.

We were oil crazy on the GT500 forums, and I even created a UOA chart to compare results. Needless to say, Motorcraft 5W-50 is not a great lubricant. It rapidly shears to a very light 40 grade lubricant and shows elevated wear metal ppm.




The moral to my post, 3,000 mile oil changes are a waste. TBN (detergent and dispersant additives) is still plentiful in engine lubricants, even cheap oil, after so few miles.

At 10k I switch to Mobil One full synthetic with OEM filter and switch to 10k oil changes. That being said, I do replace the filter halfway through and top off with fresh oil.
Mobil 1 actually isn't a "true" synthetic lubricant. It's a blend of group III hydrocracked (i.e. highly refined petroleum) and group IV PAO true synthetic. Like Castrol and other big oil companies, Mobil 1 isn't 100% pure.
 
#43 ·
Changing oil after working on car with valve cover off is good idea.... other than that changing synthetic every 5,000 is my idea of good maintenance and keeping on the very, very, very safe side when it comes to oil changes.

And for the peace of mind, regarding engine protection, I ran it only on Shell V-power, which I believe has some real benefit compared to dumping synthetic oil at 3k
 
#45 ·
I'm currently running on Mobil 1 'full synthetic' 5w-30, can those of you who has some knowledge tell me which oil would be better than that.

I admit I do not fully understand the presented table of oil comparison.
 
#47 ·
I'm currently running on Mobil 1 'full synthetic' 5w-30, can those of you who has some knowledge tell me which oil would be better than that.

I admit I do not fully understand the presented table of oil comparison.
?

Just gonna throw this out there as far as "new modern engines with higher efficiency" is concerned...

My 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 had it's oil changed every 3,000 miles. Out of the 6 qts. it took... I'd say on average between 4-5 came out, usually closer to 4... Had I waited until 5,000 miles, or even worse, 7-10,000 miles... I probably would have seized the engine. That IS a turbo engine and they DID have an issue with the stock turbo burning oil, which for anyone who didn't remove one of the two stock cats (or both, in my case for a while) wouldn't have noticed because the two cats were able to burn off the oil before you saw it coming out of the tailpipe. Regardless, that's a pretty "efficient" engine right there!
.
Better solution would be to top off, as recommended my most manufacturers and to have an oil catch-can. The latter especially for turbo cars.
 
#46 ·
Just gonna throw this out there as far as "new modern engines with higher efficiency" is concerned...

My 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 had it's oil changed every 3,000 miles. Out of the 6 qts. it took... I'd say on average between 4-5 came out, usually closer to 4... Had I waited until 5,000 miles, or even worse, 7-10,000 miles... I probably would have seized the engine. That IS a turbo engine and they DID have an issue with the stock turbo burning oil, which for anyone who didn't remove one of the two stock cats (or both, in my case for a while) wouldn't have noticed because the two cats were able to burn off the oil before you saw it coming out of the tailpipe. Regardless, that's a pretty "efficient" engine right there!

zx3matt you might have some similar experience with that.

Bottom line for me, I'll stick to the minimum recommended OCI's. For my Focus, it'll be 5k. Better safe than sorry. When you spend almost $25k on a car you expect to get you from A to B efficiently for years to come, paying $60 a year for two changes as opposed to $30 for one is worth it, if anything for the peace of mind for me. Not to mention as said earlier, closer intervals = closer inspections, and you never know when that one extra inspection will make the difference.
 
#99 ·
My 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 had it's oil changed every 3,000 miles. Out of the 6 qts. it took... I'd say on average between 4-5 came out, usually closer to 4... Had I waited until 5,000 miles, or even worse, 7-10,000 miles... I probably would have seized the engine.
Are you stating that a 5000 mile OCI on a Mazdaspeed 3 is going to do serious damage to the engine?
 
#50 ·
Glad I joined the forums here when I did. There seems to be a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about the current technologies implemented in lubrication formulations.

Mark my words, in the following year there will be many informative posts by me with solid evidence of what you can and can't do with engine lubricants in the new direct injected 2.0 Focus engine. Expect detailed threads from install articles and lab reports to back up claims and findings.

The first mod to my 2012 Focus Ti will be a bypass filtration system to make this engine last more than 300,000 miles. Used Oil Reports will show results that are better than anything you have ever seen before. I will also show real world benefits of "true" synthetic lubricants versus current off the shelf offerings from Mobil 1 (VISOM hydrocracked petroleum), Castrol, and Pennzoil.

Expect a UOA comparison thread very soon here at Focus Fanatics.
 
#55 ·
Bypass filter kits have many benefits for a passenger car, and was adopted from large diesel trucks. The system relocates your spin on full flow filter to a remote area in the engine bay, side by side with the bypass filter. This increases oil capacity and will assist with oil cooling.


  • filtration down to 1 micron (20-40 micron filtration is the best possible with spin on full flow filters)
  • ability to remove wear metals and contaminants better than a full flow filter
  • ability to remove fuel dilution and water / moisture from oil
  • cleaner oil lasts longer (longer drain interval)
  • increasing the oil systems capacity increases service interval
  • lower ppm wear metal and contaminant levels decrease engine wear
Watch how a bypass filter can remove carbon black from a lubricant in the video below. A full flow spin on filter can't, and why your engine oil looks dirty after a few thousand miles. With bypass filtration, it will always look clean until the bypass filter requires changing. Normally, you change a bypass filter every other full flow filter change.

This is a good video to explain why bypass filters work.


Here is what I bought after extensive research.

BMK23 bypass system

BK295 spin on adapter - this part will vary depending on the engine. This one is for the Focus.

EABP90 bypass filter

EAO15 full flow filter


Installation instructions for BMK23
 
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